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Doubt on '+'

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Doubt on '+'

Post by jorneto on Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:38 pm

In the army lists when there is something like this:

0-4 troop A
   + troop B

Does it means 2+2 or 4+4?

Sometimes it seems I’m unlearning the game…

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Re: Doubt on '+'

Post by Gaius Cassius on Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:18 am

Are thinking of a listing like the Nikephorian list in EI2 which states.

4-12 FP Skutatoi
+ T Supporting Archers

If this is the kind of listing you are wondering about then it means a total of up to 6 large units made up of one FP and one T. So in your example it is 2+2.
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Re: Doubt on '+'

Post by Zippee on Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:48 am

Err, I think it generally means exactly the opposite to that.

That would be (at max) 12 FP skoutatoi + 12 T archers. Often the "+ support" is optional.

In any case isn't the Nik Byz list 2-6 skoutatoi with a statement that for every skoutatoi FP you MUST deploy 1 supporting archer, that MUST form a large unit with the FP?

The format in the OP is more like Late ACH PER where you get
4-12 T Sparabara
+ T supporting archers
here the statement is only that supporting archers MUST form large units with the sparabara.

I have always understood that to mean a total of 12 large units of sparabara not a total of 6.
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Re: Doubt on '+'

Post by Gaius Cassius on Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:55 pm

Hey Zippee, the Nikephorian listing is in EI2 is exactly as depicted above (I typed it exactly from the EI2 list). If you take a look at the 1- Fatmid list in EI2 we have something similar to the Skutatoi plus archers.

4-12 FP Abid al-Shira foot
+      T Abid al-Shira archers

In the notes below it states that the two must create large units and "so must be bought in equal numbers (maximum 6 large units.)" That is the immediate source of my thinking on the matter (I also have vague recollections of this being talked about on the old Forum.) If you look below at Fatimid 2 the listing is the same but the numbers are reduced to 4-10 and the notes reduce the total number of large units to 5.
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Re: Doubt on '+'

Post by jorneto on Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:29 pm


The Nikephorian list notes also state a maximum of 6 LU.

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Re: Doubt on '+'

Post by jorneto on Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:21 pm

Perhaps a change in notation might help. Something like:

from
4-12 FP Skutatoi
+ T Supporting Archers

to
 2-6 FP Skutatoi
+2-6 T Supporting Archers

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Re: Doubt on '+'

Post by Gaius Cassius on Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:37 am

jorneto wrote:
The Nikephorian list notes also state a maximum of 6 LU.

By golly you are right. I could have used that as my example!
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Re: Doubt on '+'

Post by Zippee on Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:21 pm

I'm going by my spread sheet list calculators - so I seem to have already modified the NIK list to a max of 6 LU Very Happy

And checking the Fatimids - yes I have early as 2-6 Abid with compulsory supports, and late as 2-5.

You're right that this was the subject to a lot (an awful lot) of traffic on the old forum, mostly because the formatting isn't standardised across the lists.

I'm so used to just using my spread sheets now, I hardly ever refer back to the books (especially as they are a muddle period wise) so I guess I also updated the nomenclature at some point and forgot I had done so. Sorry for the confusion Very Happy
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Re: Doubt on '+'

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