Latest topics
» Game of Thrones
Today at 9:12 am by Silverpaint68

» Impetus Competition Derby Worlds 2017
Yesterday at 7:45 pm by slowjoecrow

» Vapnartak York Feb 2018- format options?
Yesterday at 7:40 pm by slowjoecrow

» A few questions on Groups
Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:29 pm by Zippee

» Help in making a errata/FAQ
Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:43 am by bunwin63

» Impetus bonus use by Inactive player unit.
Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:41 am by bunwin63

» Measuring sticks
Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:29 pm by kreoseus

» Q. Blocked Retreat After Combat
Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:28 pm by RogerC

» Army Lists for Issus and other battles
Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:21 am by Frostie

Impetus Competition Derby Worlds 2017

Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:42 pm by Cyrus The Adequate

There will be a 28mm Impetus Competition at Derby World Wargames on 7th …

Comments: 43

Vapnartak York Feb 2018- format options?

Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:26 am by Cyrus The Adequate

Hi everyone

I was pondering the options for the York competition and wondered …

Comments: 4

Impetus at Derby?

Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:29 am by Cyrus The Adequate

Anyone interested ? 7th & 8th October at a new venue - Bruntingthorpe …

Comments: 11

Wintercon '17 July 15-16th

Sat May 06, 2017 11:44 pm by Tarty

Canberra July 15th-16th

Basic Impetus 2
28mm
Game days are Saturday and Sunday


Comments: 0

BI2 tournament - 25 March 2017

Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:08 am by RogerC

Would anyone be interested in a 28mm Basic Impetus 2 tournament on 25 March …

Comments: 24

28mm Impetus Competition York Sunday 5th February 2017

Mon Oct 03, 2016 8:44 am by Cyrus The Adequate

The traditional start to the Impetus Competition calendar in the UK is York in …

Comments: 80

October 2017
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
      1
2345678
9101112131415
16171819202122
23242526272829
3031     

Calendar Calendar


PLACING TERRAIN

View previous topic View next topic Go down

PLACING TERRAIN

Post by Dennis Maxentius on Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:33 am

Hello All,

I am new to this forum but I have a small group of Gamers and we have come to a bit of a roadblock regarding the initial placing of terrain.   We are split on whether Terrain Items can actually straddle the Deployment Area.   I would appreciate a ruling from someone qualified to answer with an Official Interpretation.

My interpretation is, that part of a Terrain Item can straddle part of the Deployment Area as long as the Majority of that piece is outside the Deployment Area.   Is this  the correct?

Further to that, I also believe that a Terrain Item can be Totally inside the Deployment Area as long as the Majority of ALL Terrain Items used are outside the Deployment Area.   Example, using 3 Items (for simplicity, they are all the same size), one can be totally inside the Deployment Area, one partially (less than half) inside and the last one totally outside the Deployment Areas.   That way the Majority of Items are outside the Deployment Area.   Is this correct?

This will end any arguments within the group and clarify the actual intent on terrain placement.   Your interpretation would be greatly appreciated.

Kind Regards,

Dennis
avatar
Dennis Maxentius
VBU 3
VBU 3

Posts : 216
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2014-08-22
Location : Australia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: PLACING TERRAIN

Post by jeztodd on Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:17 pm

Hi I think the advanced rules PDF on the website tab has a good summary which is helpful. We play if placing three terrain items just one can be in a deployment area.
avatar
jeztodd
VBU 3
VBU 3

Posts : 186
Reputation : 3
Join date : 2014-05-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: PLACING TERRAIN

Post by Dennis Maxentius on Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:52 pm

Thanks but we have looked at the Advanced Rules and that's where we have problems. My question still stands, "Can I place part of a Terrain Item to straddle the Deployment Area as long as the Majority of that piece is outside the Deployment Area?"

Cheers,

Dennis
avatar
Dennis Maxentius
VBU 3
VBU 3

Posts : 216
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2014-08-22
Location : Australia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: PLACING TERRAIN

Post by RogerC on Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:57 pm

Hi Dennis

Only Lorenzo can give official rulings. However, the interpretation given by jeztodd is the one I believe is right. It is the only one I've seen used in tournaments.

Advanced Impetus doesn't use the word 'majority'. It says that 'most of them (i.e. the terrain items) must be outside the deployment areas'. Normally, to say that 'most' of a set of things has a characteristic means that more of the things have the characteristic than do not, rather than all the things have the characteristic but some have it more than others. Also, the rule doesn't mention areas at all, so to consider the rule to be talking about the majority of the total area of the terrain items seems to me an unlikely interpretation.

These restrictions on terrain placement are for tournaments. You and your group are free to do what you want in your own games. In the absence of an official ruling, the tournament referee would have to decide if the point was ever questioned.

Your 'majority' interpretation would be very hard to regulate. Deciding what is the majority of the areas of several irregular shapes would not be easy. Tournament restrictions are intended to simplify the rules for tournaments, not to complicate them. That is another reason I think your interpretation is unlikely.

So, to answer your question - I think you can place a terrain item to straddle the deployment area provided there are two terrain items wholly outside the deployment area, or you are the attacker placing a terrain item when the defender has only placed one terrain item.

RogerC

RogerC
VBU 3
VBU 3

Posts : 145
Reputation : 3
Join date : 2014-05-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: PLACING TERRAIN

Post by jeztodd on Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:54 pm

Dennis, I would say that the terrain pieces can straddle deployment areas, but if it does this then it would have to count as being in the deployment area and therefore other terrain pieces would have to be clearly outside.

Jez
avatar
jeztodd
VBU 3
VBU 3

Posts : 186
Reputation : 3
Join date : 2014-05-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: PLACING TERRAIN

Post by Dennis Maxentius on Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:30 pm

Thanks Guys, but to answer Roger, we are running a 15mm Impetus Comp and so we need a ruling because one of our boys will be the Umpire.

To quote the rules "...he selects and places from 2 to 6 terrain elements, the majority of which must not be in Deployment Areas."

Also in Advance Impetus, most of them (individual elements) still fits my criteria.

If using 2 elements and counting each element as a whole, to take it literally, the majority of 2 is more than one, so therefore NO pieces are allowed in any Deployment Area.   I don't think this is the intent, otherwise there would be wording something like, NO part of ANY terrain element is allowed in a Deployment Area.

I am looking at each terrain element as a separate piece, so if you have 2 pieces, both pieces can be partially inside a Deployment Area as long as the majority of both of those pieces are outside the Deployment Area.

There are no diagrams to illustrate this so I refer to the diagram in Advance Impetus under Ambush which shows 3 elements of terrain.   One element is TOTALLY outside the Deployment Area but the other 2 are PARTIALLY in (straddling) the Deployment Area, so that the majority of ALL terrain elements is outside the Deployment Area.   Does that make sense?

You can see at a glance if the majority of a single element is inside or outside an area.   And providing the majority of each individual element is outside the Deployment Area, this meets the requirement.

So how do I get a ruling if Lorenzo is the only one that can do this?

Thanks again for your input.

Regards,

Dennis


Last edited by Dennis Maximus on Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
avatar
Dennis Maxentius
VBU 3
VBU 3

Posts : 216
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2014-08-22
Location : Australia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: PLACING TERRAIN

Post by starkadder on Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:33 am

"So how do I get a ruling if Lorenzo is the only one that can do this?"

Ask him.

Jim Webster handles a lot of this kind of thing.

PM Dadiepiombo if you're desperate.
He is also on Facebook

For what it's worth, applying a surface area argument (your "majority") would only be relevant to particular types of terrain (hills, rough ground etc). It would only lead to enormous arguments and spark interest in trigonometry.
avatar
starkadder
VBU 4
VBU 4

Posts : 302
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2014-05-19
Age : 63
Location : Tahmoor, NSW, Oz

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: PLACING TERRAIN

Post by Dennis Maxentius on Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:29 am

Thanks, but I'm not on Facebook. I thought Dadiepiombo was on this site.

I still think I can have parts of a terrain element in a Deployment Area providing the majority of that piece is outside it.

Regards,

Dennis
avatar
Dennis Maxentius
VBU 3
VBU 3

Posts : 216
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2014-08-22
Location : Australia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: PLACING TERRAIN

Post by starkadder on Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:54 am

Dennis Maximus wrote:I still think I can have parts of a terrain element in a Deployment Area providing the majority of that piece is outside it.

Yep.

dadiepiombo is indeed on this site.
On Facebook he's Lorenzo Sartori.

avatar
starkadder
VBU 4
VBU 4

Posts : 302
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2014-05-19
Age : 63
Location : Tahmoor, NSW, Oz

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: PLACING TERRAIN

Post by Dennis Maxentius on Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:32 am

Thanks, are you saying Yes that you agree with my interpretation, or Yes that Lorenzo is on this site?

Dennis
avatar
Dennis Maxentius
VBU 3
VBU 3

Posts : 216
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2014-08-22
Location : Australia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: PLACING TERRAIN

Post by starkadder on Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:53 am

Dennis Maximus wrote:Thanks, are you saying Yes that you agree with my interpretation, or Yes that Lorenzo is on this site?

Yep.

I don't agree with your "total surface area of all pieces" concept but, for example, a hill poking a bit into a deployment area is fine.

And Lorenzo is here. He is all around us, watching over us. Relentlessly.  What a Face 
avatar
starkadder
VBU 4
VBU 4

Posts : 302
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2014-05-19
Age : 63
Location : Tahmoor, NSW, Oz

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: PLACING TERRAIN

Post by Dennis Maxentius on Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:51 am

I still feel my interpretation is correct and I welcome a ruling from Lorenzo.

A diagram showing terrain placement would be helpful, as that will define the correct intent.   Idea The only diagram that comes close to illustrating my point is in the Advanced Impetus under Ambush.   It just shows an example of what I'm trying to describe as far as terrain placement.

Regards,

Dennis
avatar
Dennis Maxentius
VBU 3
VBU 3

Posts : 216
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2014-08-22
Location : Australia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: PLACING TERRAIN

Post by Granicus Gaugamela on Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:12 pm

Hi Dennis,

I'm currently sitting waiting for my transfer to Heathrow so I thought I'd take the time to look up the references to hopefully answer your questions.

My quotes come from the advanced Impetus rules which are available as a free download by following this link:

Advanced Impetus download link

The section "Making the Terrain" starts at the very bottom of page I and continues over to page II.

Dennis Maximus wrote:Hello All,

I am new to this forum but I have a small group of Gamers and we have come to a bit of a roadblock regarding the initial placing of terrain.   We are split on whether Terrain Items can actually straddle the Deployment Area.   I would appreciate a ruling from someone qualified to answer with an Official Interpretation.

My interpretation is, that part of a Terrain Item can straddle part of the Deployment Area as long as the Majority of that piece is outside the Deployment Area.   Is this  the correct?

Individual terrain items can generally be placed anywhere provided the overriding rules are respected. The relevant one for the situation you mention is that of the total terrain pieces placed most of them must be "entirely outside the deployment areas".

So if you have 1 terrain piece it must not be in a deployment zone, 2 pieces both must also be outside of deployment zones, 3 pieces allows 1 inside deployment zone etc.


Dennis Maximus wrote:
Further to that, I also believe that a Terrain Item can be Totally inside the Deployment Area as long as the Majority of ALL Terrain Items used are outside the Deployment Area.   Example, using 3 Items (for simplicity, they are all the same size), one can be totally inside the Deployment Area, one partially (less than half) inside and the last one totally outside the Deployment Areas.   That way the Majority of Items are outside the Deployment Area.   Is this correct?

The literal wording of the rule is that most of the terrain pieces must be ENTIRELY outside of the deployment zone so you cannot have an item partially within a deployment zone counting toward the majority of terrain pieces being entirely outside the deployment zone.

So for three pieces you must have 2 entirely free of deployment zones, the third can be fully or partially within a deployment zone.


Dennis Maximus wrote:
This will end any arguments within the group and clarify the actual intent on terrain placement.   Your interpretation would be greatly appreciated.

Kind Regards,

Dennis

Hope that helps, best of luck and good gaming!

GG

Granicus Gaugamela
VBU 4
VBU 4

Posts : 435
Reputation : 11
Join date : 2014-05-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: PLACING TERRAIN

Post by Dennis Maxentius on Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:54 pm

Thanks Mate, appreciate your reply, but I still believe that it depends how you actually read the text as to which interpretation is correct. Believe it or not, I can actually see what you and everyone else is saying, it's just that I have a different interpretation.

Simple wording like, "No individual terrain piece can be placed in a Deployment Area." would have been great. Or even a diagram.

I would gladly welcome an Official Ruling.

Regards,

Dennis
avatar
Dennis Maxentius
VBU 3
VBU 3

Posts : 216
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2014-08-22
Location : Australia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: PLACING TERRAIN

Post by dadiepiombo on Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:28 am

I'm here. Missed the post.
As already said. The majority means most of the terrains.
So with 3 pieces one can straddle, with 2 no one.
avatar
dadiepiombo
Admin
Admin

Posts : 874
Reputation : 33
Join date : 2014-05-15

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: PLACING TERRAIN

Post by RogerC on Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:14 pm

Thank you Lorenzo. I'm glad we've been playing this correctly.

RogerC

RogerC
VBU 3
VBU 3

Posts : 145
Reputation : 3
Join date : 2014-05-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: PLACING TERRAIN

Post by Dennis Maxentius on Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:01 pm

Molte Grazie Lorenzo,

That will end any arguments. Apprezzato. I appreciate your ruling. I like the rules very much and enjoy the game. I look forward to the Revised Rules. Keep up the good work.

Saluti,

Dennis
avatar
Dennis Maxentius
VBU 3
VBU 3

Posts : 216
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2014-08-22
Location : Australia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: PLACING TERRAIN

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum