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Opportunity charges on pursuers

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Opportunity charges on pursuers

Post by Pyjamas on Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:13 am

Good afternoon gents,

We had an intesreting situation last night in what proved to be an excellent game between Early Imperial Romans and Gauls.

A gallic warband defeated a Roman unit in melee forcing them back.  They recoiled as seen below.
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A unit of Roman Cavalry were on opportunity (unit with green disc behind them)and in a position to possibly charge the pursuers before they followed up the romans.

As you can see the Roman Cavalry had a unit of gauls in front of them.

Question is :

a)  Can the Romans interupt teh pursuit at the halfway mark and hit the following up Gauls or are they unable do charge pursuers?

b)  Do the gauls in front of them (the unit not disordered) block the cavalry charging as the Romans must charge as soon as the pursuers commence their move and the space is not there?
c)  Are pursuers subject to opportunity charges?

d)  At what point do impetuous troops stop being impetuous other than when placed on opportunity?


I am sure we will have more qusetions to follow.

cheers

Carlo

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Re: Opportunity charges on pursuers

Post by Granicus Gaugamela on Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:48 am

The "can/cannot react to a reaction" can of worms.

There are a lot of issues with the same underlying principle, can a reaction such as pursuit trigger a reaction in other troops? eg moving through zone of control whilst pursuing, plus the examples you note etc.

We usually play "cannot react to a reaction" but nobody has ever been able to point to that being a specific rule, it is just a wargaming convention.

It will be interesting to see which way this one lands.

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Re: Opportunity charges on pursuers

Post by accard on Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:13 am

It is interesting.

The rules state that you can't evade from a pursuit move. 5.11.1 So that is one reaction you can't do to a pursuit.

Also, a counter charge can only be launched against a charge which is a movement phase according to 5.8.

So is a pursuit a movement phase or just part of a melee phase?

So my position, largely from ignorance, would be no counter charge.

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Re: Opportunity charges on pursuers

Post by Dennis Maxentius on Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:20 pm

He's not talking about a Counter Charge. A Unit on Opportunity can interrupt the movement of the enemy to charge it. However, assume that the battle is ongoing and so the Romans are withdrawing from the Gauls with the Gauls in hot pursuit (right on their heels). Not much room to react, especially with another Gaul unit in the way. To me Logically, NO, can't Opportunity charge, as there is no break between the units involved in the combat (they don't stop and discuss whether they will pursue or not, it's a continuing running battle). Make sense?

Impetuous troops cease being Impetuous as soon as they lose 50% of their original VBU, page 14 para 2.6.1. Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Dennis
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Re: Opportunity charges on pursuers

Post by Gaius Cassius on Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:23 am

If you look on the old Forum you will find discussion on this topic. The decision/ruling by Lorenzo was that there is no opportunity response to pursuits of any type (including reactions) or any other kind of movement (evade.) The thinking behind this decision was to keep the game mechanics simple. Units retreat, units pursue that's it. So it is more than convention and probably should have been included in Advanced Impetus.
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Re: Opportunity charges on pursuers

Post by Gaius Cassius on Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:34 am

This isn't the full discussion but the thread below gives you the definitive answer from Lorenzo.

"no, there is no reaction to a pursuit, no opportunity, no ZoC, no evasions."


http://impetus.forumsland.com/impetus-about3300.html&highlight=pursuit
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Re: Opportunity charges on pursuers

Post by Dennis Maxentius on Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:19 am

I didn't see the discussion thread on the old Forum, but I think my response says the same thing. No Opportunity Charge, etc. Logic prevails.

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Re: Opportunity charges on pursuers

Post by Pyjamas on Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:01 am

Thanks Gents - thats pretty categorical and how we played it.

Common sense prevailed.

Cheers and thanksso much for the quick and patient replies to this novices questions.

Carlo

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Re: Opportunity charges on pursuers

Post by Dennis Maxentius on Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:43 pm

You're welcome, glad to be of help.

Den nis
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Re: Opportunity charges on pursuers

Post by dadiepiombo on Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:39 am

If I have not included in Advanced Impetus I will do at the next edition. Anyyway I confirm no reaction to pursing/retreat. Consider these as parts of the melee.
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Re: Opportunity charges on pursuers

Post by Dennis Maxentius on Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:41 am

My point exactly. As I said, it's a continuing melee and the units don't stop to decide if they will pursue or not. Maybe a brief explanation in I2 would help.

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