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Chichimec List updated.

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Chichimec List updated.

Post by Boris the blade on Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:41 am

Hi I would like to propose the following List.

I have chosen a period that would make them a enemy of the Aztecs. 1325-1550AD

The Chichimec were a nomadic culture living in the deserts above the Aztec empire.

The main weapon was a bow, of which they were very skilled with. Even able to penetrate Spanish plate.

I have chosen B Class and a option for poor or average. They were quite skilled with ambushes, I believe giving them a higher rating gives them a little more tactical flexibility.

These tribes terrified both the Aztecs and later the Spanish.
N                                                      M VBU I      D      VD    Pts   Weapon
0 FL - Warriors with clubs spears *   8 5 2 B 2/3 22
    up to 1 Per 3 other warriors
15-45 S - Archers *                            8 3 0 B 1/3 14 Short Bow B
or     T - Archers *                             6 4 0 B 1/3 18 Short Bow A
   

I would suggest 0-6 Destiny Rolls as the other meso list, these guys were even more brutal than most with captives.

Thoughts suggestions
I have made the T class the same as the Aztec Bow but the Skirmishers are better.

Thoughts Suggestions


Last edited by Boris the blade on Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:27 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Points modified)

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Re: Chichimec List updated.

Post by Jim Webster on Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:46 am

I think how you grade these troops depends on how the Aztecs are graded.
As an army to fight Aztecs I suspect it's probably about right.
Whether the Aztecs are 'right' on an absolute scale when compared to Thracians, Late Romans and Catalans is another question Embarassed

One question is, when you build your army, how many of the FL do you get? Because they do look awfully meaty. Should there be a maximum number of them and after that point you have to fill up with something more like the Aztec 4/1 ?
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Re: Chichimec List updated.

Post by Boris the blade on Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:22 am

Hi Jim the table did not come out as well as it looked on preview.

The FL are you can take one for every 3 of the normal warriors. So at about 500 points you will get around 8 of them.

I did take the values to fight its historical enemy the Aztecs.

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Re: Chichimec List updated.

Post by Boris the blade on Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:24 am

I have a mayan army, which I did fight thracians and it was a very close thing.

The mounted give me some real issues.

In all the games of Imp I have played I have yet to see a army preform really poorly. Where in other game rules there has been some real stinkers. Of which in DBM this was one.

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Re: Chichimec List updated.

Post by Jim Webster on Thu Oct 16, 2014 11:28 am

I don't think 8 is unreasonable in 500 points then Cool Certainly given that the Aztecs could probably get about 14 who are a little better

It's a question of balance

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Re: Chichimec List updated.

Post by Boris the blade on Thu Oct 16, 2014 11:43 am

Yes as both your T and S version of your main warriors are not that cheap you cannot distort the list to get more of the hand to hand warriors.

They are better than normal Aztec warriors but no where near as good as a suit wearer.
Who has a extra 2-3 Imp value and Various weapons.

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Re: Chichimec List updated.

Post by RogerC on Thu Oct 16, 2014 12:14 pm

This is another period that I know nothing about. I'm just looking at points comparisons with other lists, particularly Chinese which are about as far away in time and space from your lists as you can get.

Shouldn't the T 4/0/B Short Bow A archers be 18 points rather than 16? Compare them with the archers in the Late Sung list in EI5 or in the Sui Dynasty list in the medieval beta lists. Similarly, shouldn't the S 3/0/B Short Bow B be 14 rather than 13. Compare them with the Cretan archers in various of the Successor lists in EI4. I also think the FL 5/2/B foot should be 21 rather than 22 points if their weapons don't give special characteristics. The Iberians in EI4 have units with such characteristics as an option, and there are some in the Ancient Chinese beta lists

On the other hand, I don't understand the extra points needed 'as commander', when the stats of the unit (other than VD) don't change. I can't think of any list where you pay more just because the commander is with the unit. You are paying for him when you choose the type of general.

As Jim also said, I'm just thinking about balance.

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Re: Chichimec List updated.

Post by Boris the blade on Thu Oct 16, 2014 12:20 pm

Hi Roger

I used the points list sheet, The commander will cost more and the VD will boost the amount it takes to break the command.

I costed them out as per that sheet, I am not sure how the others were done.

That sheet is in the old forum under Impetus the armies

Thanks Boris

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Re: Chichimec List updated.

Post by RogerC on Thu Oct 16, 2014 12:52 pm

Thanks for the explanation, Boris. Unfortunately I can't seem to get to that points value sheet (blocked by adverts).

I can't explain the difference between that sheet and the examples I gave. All I can say is that I can find other examples in the official EI supplements and beta lists where the points values I gave are the ones used for units with those characteristics. And nowhere in the published lists are there extra points just because a general is with a unit. I agree that having a general with the unit boosts the VD value (if it isn't already 3), and so loss of the unit increases the risk of the command breaking. However, that doesn't seem to cause a change in points value.

Sorry, I don't know what else to say. Maybe others can help us out.

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Re: Chichimec List updated.

Post by Boris the blade on Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:33 pm

Hi Roger

The adfly thing is a bit tricky if not shoot me a pm with you email address and I will mail it to you.

With addfly
In the top right hand corner you will see a countdown. Wait for that to end and click on that button only. The rest are adds, it will then download the file you are after.

Thanks Boris.

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Re: Chichimec List updated.

Post by Boris the blade on Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:20 pm

Hi mate you are right the VD has no impact on the points

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Re: Chichimec List updated.

Post by RogerC on Fri Oct 17, 2014 5:17 pm

Thanks again for the list, Boris.

I see you've edited the points values of the archers and S. You might also look at the FL. M=8=2points, VBU=5=12points. I=2=2points, M=B=5points no special weapons (I presume the spears aren't long). That's 21 not 22.

OK?

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Re: Chichimec List updated.

Post by Boris the blade on Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:20 pm

Thanks Roger, with the FL the spear is a single small one that could be thrown.

For chichimec think US plains indians without the horses.

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Re: Chichimec List updated.

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