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Roman List for L&S

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Roman List for L&S

Post by Oldentired on Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:45 am

i've had the rules for 5 mins, and see that there are points listed! i know that this is for medieval warfare, but figured hey, what's the early republic is not the medievals with better plumbing?

i drew up the following:

Marian/Early Imperial Legion
1/2/3; C4, Heavy Armour.
0-1 Centurion (Lvl 3), Sword, Javelin, Shield, Veteran, 38pts
1 Optio (Lvl 2), Sword, Javelin, Shield, Veteran, 33pts
0-1 Signifier (Lvl 1), Standard, Sword, 23pts
0-1 Cornicen (Lvl 1), Musician, Sword, 20pts.
6-20 Legionary, Sword, Javelin, Shield. 19pts.
Add Veteran +4.


Germanic or Celtic Auxiliaries
1/2/3; C4, Heavy Armour, Mercenary, Skirmisher.
1 Leader (Lvl 2), Sword, Short Spear, Shield, 38pts
6-20 Auxiliary, Sword, Short Spear, Shield 28pts.

Auxiliary Bowmen
1/2/3; C3, Heavy Armour
6-20 Bowmen, Bow 13pts
Add Mercenary +4
Add dagger +2 or add Sword +3

Auxiliary Cavalry
1/2/3; C4, Mounted, Heavy Armour
1 Leader (Lvl 2), Sword, Javelin, Shield, Veteran, 38pts
0-1 Signifier (Lvl 1), Standard, Sword, 28pts
0-1 Cornicen (Lvl 1), Musician, Sword, 25pts.
6-20 Auxiliary Cavalry, Sword, Javelin, Shield. 24pts.
Add Veteran +4
Add Scout +2.

The main thing is, everything in a Roman army of this period is armoured! Might need to sort out some Cretan archers or Baleric slingers.


Last edited by Oldentired on Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Roman List for L&S

Post by dadiepiombo on Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:00 am

good job. I plan to release also an Ancient version soon or later. I think most of the rules will be the same, but with more details for the period (and the addition of new weapons)
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Re: Roman List for L&S

Post by Toutankarton on Wed Dec 23, 2015 3:24 pm

Hello everyone. Very well this roman list. I am waiting for a version for ancient warfare. Is it for a near future?

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Re: Roman List for L&S

Post by dadiepiombo on Wed Dec 30, 2015 8:26 am

Yes an ancient versio is planned, by the way not in the near future. In the meanwhile the medieval version can be used, maybe with some specific special rules. This also can help to make some tests.
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Re: Roman List for L&S

Post by Vorlon1025 on Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:07 pm

Hi,

I like the idea of pushing L&S back into "Roman Times".

I think your list is a great staring point, but for me it highlights the "armour" issue which I feel/hope will addressed in V2 (?)

i.e.

Light Armour at +2points
Heavy Armour +4pts
Partial Plate +6pts
Full Plate +8pts
Shield +2pts

There is no option to take a Shield with Full Plate.

Thus with a shield, an armour class would cost the same as the next armour class above (unshielded) and also have the same effect on missile damage e.g.

Unarmoured & Unshielded 6
Shield 5+
Light Armour 5+
Light Armour & Shield 4+
Heavy Armour 4+
Heavy Armour & Shield 3+
Partial Plate 3+
Partial Plate & Shield 2+
Full Plate 2+

That would allow your Celtic/German Auxiliaries to be "Light Armour" - although I think they would more probably be no armour in Caesar's time and light armour only after Augustus' reforms?

I think you actually need a few lists:

Late Republican: Marius to Caesar
Early Principate: Augustus to Antoninus Pius
Middle Principate: Marcus Aurelius to Diocletian
Late Principate: Constantine to Theodosius I
Western Foederate: Honorius to Romulus Augustulus
Eastern Foederate: Arcadius to Zeno

Thereafter we're really into another Supplement starting with:

Early Byzantine: Anastatius to Maurice

LOL!

Plenty of opposing armies needed as well; Gauls, Early Germans, Britons, Parthians, Sassanids, Later Germans, Franks, Saxons, Huns, Picts, Goths (various), Vandals, and Moors to name a few.

I'd love to write some of these

But then I'm mad :-)

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Re: Roman List for L&S

Post by dadiepiombo on Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:34 pm

For that and other reasons a different set is require. Anyway I was wondering if Fall of Britannia could be a period to be included directly in the medieval set, as the rest of dark age.

In the new version I'm working at I'm fixing some aspects linked to armour.
If you are intereste in help me for the ancient period you can contact me at losart AT libero DOT it
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Re: Roman List for L&S

Post by Greymouse on Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:02 am

I think Fall of of Britannia and the Dark Ages would fit fine into L&S. Things evolved constantly and an exact borderline between Antiquity and Medieval times is always a bit artificial. In German for example we don't have a Term for the Dark Ages - they are simply part of the Early Medieval Period.

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Re: Roman List for L&S

Post by Vorlon1025 on Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:20 pm

Here are some Roman Lists I have put together. They are fairly "generic" in that I have tried to capture the essence of each period without putting in every conceivable option!

The Pilum I have treated as a Short Spear with a cost of 2pts each, it's advantage is that it cancels out being forced to re-roll by an enemy shield.


Late Republican Roman 105BC - 25BC


0 to 1, Command Group; AV 1/2/3; C=5; Mounted; Light Armour

1 Consul, (LV4), Sword, Shield, @46pts
1 Standard Bearer, (LV2), Army Banner, Sword, Shield @46pts
0 to 1, Musician, (LV2), Trumpet, Sword, Shield @38pts
0 to 3, Bodyguards, (LV2), Sword, Shield @36pts each

Any figure may take a Short Spear at 1pt each

Due to his Roman military heritage, the Consul may be upgraded to Brilliant Officer for +5pts

The bodyguards may be variously depicted as Praetorians, Germans etc.


2 - 8, Legions; AV 1/2/3; C=4; Light Armour

1, Centurion, (LV2), Pilum, Sword, Shield @30pts
1, Standard Bearer, Unit Banner, Pilum, Sword, Shield @23pts
6 to 20 Legionaries, Pilum, Sword, Shield @17pts each

The Centurion may be upgraded to Stubborn at +20pts - but he can affect his own Unit only.

"Pilum" I have set at 2pts each - treat as a short spear - but it negates the effect of enemy shields being able to force re-rolls.

Up to two units may be designated as Elite with "Veteran" and AV 1/2/2 at +5points per figure.

Up to two units may be designated as Raw with Unarmoured" and AV 2/2/3 at -4pts per figure.


0 to 1, Roman Cavalry; AV 1/2/3; C=4; Mounted, Light Armour

1, Prefect, (LV2), Short Spear, Sword, Shield @34pts
1, Standard Bearer, Unit Banner, Short Spear, Sword, Shield @27pts
4 to 12, Troopers, Short Spear, Sword, Shield @22pts each


1 to 2, Allied Cavalry; AV 1/2/3; C=4; Mounted, Unarmoured

1, Prefect/Chieftain, (LV2), Short Spear, Sword, Shield @32pts
4 to 12, Warriors, Short Spear, Sword, Shield @20pts each


0 - 2, Allied Infantry; AV 1/2/3; C=4; Unarmoured, Terrain

1, Chieftain, (LV2), Short Spear, Sword, Shield @30pts
1, Standard Bearer, Unit Banner, Short Spear, Shield @20pts
6 to 20 Tribesmen, Short Spear, Shield @15pts each


0 to 1, Allied Skirmishers; AV 1/2/3; C=3; Unarmoured, Skirmishers, Terrain

1, Leader, (LV2), Bow, Dagger @29pts
6 to 20, Archers, Bow, Dagger @19pts each

Skirmishers may exchange Bow for Sling & Shield at +2pts per figure (All or None)

This is all about the Legions, there's not a lot in the way of supporting troops, and what allies there are aren't very heavily armoured.

The Allied Cavalry represent, Gauls, Spanish or Germans - I haven't gone into the various supposed differences as think they can be overdone in rule-sets - however if you wanted to there's nothing to stop you tweaking the stats providing your opponent agrees!

Likewise the Allied Infantry will be Gauls, Spanish, Illyrians etc.

The skirmishers can be depicted either by Cretan Archers or Balearic Slingers


Last edited by Vorlon1025 on Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:59 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : typos)

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Re: Roman List for L&S

Post by Vorlon1025 on Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:56 pm

Early Principate 25BC - 180AD


0 to 1, Command Group; AV 1/2/3; C=5; Mounted; Light Armour

1 General, (LV4), Sword, Shield, @46pts
1 Standard Bearer, (LV2), Army Banner, Sword, Shield @46pts
0 to 1, Musician, (LV2), Trumpet, Sword, Shield @38pts
0 to 3, Bodyguards, (LV2), Sword, Shield @36pts each

Any figure may take a Short Spear at 1pt each

Due to his Roman military heritage, the General may be upgraded to Brilliant Officer for +5pts

The bodyguards may be variously depicted as Praetorians, Germans etc.


2 - 6, Legions; AV 1/2/3; C=4; Light Armour

1, Centurion, (LV2), Pilum, Sword, Shield @30pts
1, Standard Bearer, Unit Banner, Pilum, Sword, Shield @23pts
6 to 20 Legionaries, Pilum, Sword, Shield @17pts each

The Centurion may be upgraded to Stubborn at +20pts - but he can affect his own Unit only.

Up to two units may be designated as Elite with "Veteran" and AV 1/2/2 at +5points per figure.


1 to 3, Auxiliary Cavalry; AV 1/2/3; C=4; Mounted, Light Armour

1, Prefect, (LV2), Short Spear, Javelins, Sword, Shield @35pts
1, Standard Bearer, Unit Banner, Short Spear, Javelins, Sword, Shield @28pts
4 to 12, Troopers, Short Spear, Javelins, Sword, Shield @23pts each


0 to 1, Allied Light Cavalry; AV 1/2/3; C=3; Mounted, Unarmoured, Skirmishers

1, Prefect/Chieftain, (LV2), Javelins, Sword, Shield @34pts
4 to 12, Warriors, Javelins, Dagger, Shield @21pts each


1 - 4, Auxiliary Infantry; AV 1/2/3; C=4; Light Armour, Terrain

1, Prefect, (LV2), Short Spear, Javelins, Sword, Shield @35pts
1, Standard Bearer, Unit Banner, Short Spear, Javelins, Shield @24pts
6 to 20 Auxiliaries, Short Spear, Javelins, Shield @15pts each

Up to one unit may be designated as Archers by exchanging Short Spear, Javelins & Shield for "Skirmishers" and a Bow at +4pts per figure (All or None)


0 to 1, Allied Light Infantry; AV 1/2/3; C=3; Unarmoured, Skirmishers, Terrain

1, Leader, (LV2), Javelins, Sword, Shield @32pts
6 to 20, Warriors, Javelins, Dagger, Shield @19pts each

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Re: Roman List for L&S

Post by Vorlon1025 on Sat Mar 05, 2016 10:19 am

Late Principate 180AD - 337AD


0 to 1, Command Group; AV 1/2/3; C=5; Mounted; Light Armour

1 General, (LV4), Sword, Shield, @46pts
1 Standard Bearer, (LV2), Army Banner, Sword, Shield @46pts
0 to 1, Musician, (LV2), Trumpet, Sword, Shield @38pts
0 to 3, Bodyguards, (LV2), Sword, Shield @36pts each

Any figure may take a Short Spear at 1pt each

Due to his Roman military heritage, the General may be upgraded to Brilliant Officer for +5pts

The bodyguards may be variously depicted as Praetorians, Germans, Candidati etc.


1 - 4, Legions; AV 1/2/3; C=4; Light Armour

1, Centurion, (LV2), Pilum, Sword, Shield @30pts
1, Standard Bearer, Unit Banner, Pilum, Sword, Shield @23pts
6 to 20 Legionaries, Pilum, Sword, Shield @17pts each

The Centurion may be upgraded to Stubborn at +20pts - but he can affect his own Unit only.

Up to two units may be designated as Elite with "Veteran", AV 1/2/2 and Javelins at +6points per figure.


1 to 3, Auxiliary Cavalry; AV 1/2/3; C=4; Mounted, Light Armour

1, Prefect, (LV2), Short Spear, Javelins, Sword, Shield @35pts
1, Standard Bearer, Unit Banner, Short Spear, Javelins, Sword, Shield @28pts
4 to 12, Troopers, Short Spear, Javelins, Sword, Shield @23pts each

Up to one unit may be designated as Elite with "Veteran" and AV 1/2/2 at +5points per figure.


0 to 1, Cataphracts; AV 1/2/3; C=4; Mounted, Heavy Armour, Horse Barding

1, Prefect, (LV2), Lance, Sword @38pts
1, Standard Bearer, Unit Banner, Lance, Sword @31pts
4 - 12 Troopers, Lance, Sword @26pts each


0 to 1, Equites Dalmatae; AV 1/2/3; C=3; Mounted, Unarmoured, Skirmishers

1, Prefect, (LV2), Javelins, Sword, Shield @34pts
4 to 12, Troopers, Javelins, Sword, Shield @22pts each


2 - 5, Auxiliary Infantry; AV 1/2/3; C=4; Unarmoured, Terrain

1, Prefect, (LV2), Short Spear, Javelins, Sword, Shield @33pts
1, Standard Bearer, Unit Banner, Short Spear, Javelins, Shield @22pts
6 to 20 Auxiliaries, Short Spear, Javelins, Shield @13pts each

Up to one unit may be designated as Archers by exchanging Short Spear, Javelins & Shield for "Skirmishers" and a Bow at +4pts per figure (All or None)

Up to two units may be designated as Elite with "Veteran"and AV 1/2/2 at +5points per figure.

Elite Auxiliary Infantry (only) may be further upgraded with Light Armour at +2points per figure.


0 to 1, Allied Light Infantry; AV 1/2/3; C=3; Unarmoured, Skirmishers, Terrain

1, Leader, (LV2), Javelins, Sword, Shield @32pts
6 to 20, Warriors, Javelins, Dagger, Shield @19pts each




Last edited by Vorlon1025 on Sat Mar 05, 2016 10:34 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Roman List for L&S

Post by Vorlon1025 on Sat Mar 05, 2016 10:33 am


These three lists cover 105BC to 337AD - about 400 years.

Nonetheless there are clearly common elements.

The core of the Army is the Legionary - a trained, armoured infantry with sword, shield and a heavy throwing weapon. Due to campaigns or intensive training some of these may take the field as Elite units, but generally this should not be overdone.

These are supported by Auxiliary and Native Troops who can supply the skills and tactical options the Legions lack.

It seems that on a strategic level the Empire moves from a potentially aggressive posture in the Late Republic and Early Principate to a more defensive posture in the Late Principate.

The importance of the Auxiliary Troops increases and the distinction starts to blur after the Constitutio Antoniniana in 212AD which made all freedmen in the Empire citizens. Previously Auxiliary Troops had to wait until retirement to get their Citizenship, whilst (theoretically) Legionaries had to be Citizens in order to enlist.

Within this broad scheme there are lots of minor options and variations - such as the troop mixes in the 69AD Civil War etc. etc.

However an "average" Roman force will have the sorts of troops listed as these are the most common types.

If you want a Cohort of Freed Gladiators or an Auxiliary Cavalry Unit mounted on Camels - umm - go for it (or not!)

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