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Vapnartak York Feb 2018- format options?

Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:26 am by Cyrus The Adequate

Hi everyone

I was pondering the options for the York competition and wondered …

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Impetus Competition Derby Worlds 2017

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Impetus at Derby?

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Canberra July 15th-16th

Basic Impetus 2
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BI2 tournament - 25 March 2017

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Would anyone be interested in a 28mm Basic Impetus 2 tournament on 25 March …

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28mm Impetus Competition York Sunday 5th February 2017

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The traditional start to the Impetus Competition calendar in the UK is York in …

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Overhead Fire in Short Range

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Overhead Fire in Short Range

Post by Gaius Cassius on Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:47 pm

Was wondering how others play it. We know that a shooting unit within Short Range must shoot at the unit most within its frontage. What happens when the shooting unit is masked by a friendly unit but still can fire overhead at Short Range. Does the shooting priority still apply with the -2 or can the shooting unit choose another target. We presume that the shooting priority applies but we'd to see if others agree.
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Re: Overhead Fire in Short Range

Post by Zippee on Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:14 am

Gaius Cassius wrote:We presume that the shooting priority applies but we'd to see if others agree.

Why wouldn't it?

Is there a rule that suspends target priority for overhead shooting?

We play that it applies - never considered otherwise Shocked
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Re: Overhead Fire in Short Range

Post by Geoffrm on Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:19 am

Hi,
There is a rule where the intervening unit has to be closer to the shooter than it is to the target.

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Re: Overhead Fire in Short Range

Post by Zippee on Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:17 am

Geoffrm wrote:Hi,
  There is a rule where the intervening unit has to be closer to the shooter than it is to the target.

Geoff

That's about dead ground and permits overhead shooting to take place - I can't think of a way that that impacts on priority.

I guess the question is does priority apply and if so do you calculate it to the shooter or to the unit being fired over. I can see that getting weird quite quickly, KISS would dictate priority applies to the shooter as normal.
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Re: Overhead Fire in Short Range

Post by Gaius Cassius on Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:48 pm

We all have certain blind spots in the rules. Overhead fire is one of ours. In Impetus LOS isn't impacted by the presence of other units (unlike other rules) although overhead firing is only allowed over friendly units.

I believe that in Impetus that if the firing unit is obstructed from firing by an interposing friendly unit the firing unit can choose another viable target.
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Re: Overhead Fire in Short Range

Post by Zippee on Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:29 pm

Gaius Cassius wrote: I believe that in Impetus that if the firing unit is obstructed from firing by an interposing friendly unit the firing unit can choose another viable target.

True, I guess it's not a priority target if you can't actually shoot at it Very Happy

No matter how big and scary it might be affraid
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Re: Overhead Fire in Short Range

Post by frazer on Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:50 am

hi

this discussion got me to read the rules....magic, as i learn something new every day on this forum. i would advise everyone to try it..joking!

6.3.4 firing priorities

the last para..targets priorities are ignored if the target cannot be fired at due to not being visible.


so i think this means you can (or indeed must??) ignore targets that you can only fire at indirectly if there is a direct target you can fire at.

hmmm..just when i thought i had worked it out, i have confused myself again


cheers

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Re: Overhead Fire in Short Range

Post by RogerC on Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:51 pm

Thanks frazer. Yes, 6.3.4 appears to exclude the target priorities applying to indirect fire.

The question of 'can or must' that you highlighted is an interesting one. Target priorities are defined out to long range. So you are right that one interpretation is that you cannot fire indirectly unless you have no direct target. That could lead to uncomfortable situations, remembering that I must fire at a priority target even if modifiers give me no dice.

If I 'must' fire at a direct (priority) target if I can, then I could have an enemy at at close range that I cannot fire at directly because it is not visible but I cannot fire at it indirectly because I have a target at long range visible in my arc of fire that I cannot hit because the range modifiers give me no dice to fire with.

The alternative, I suppose, is to see indirect fire as an alternative to direct fire, so I can choose it even if there is also a direct target. The rules don't say this and the 'must' in the first sentence of 6.3.4 appears to exclude it.

Maybe that's why indirect fire is rare. I too have a blind spot with it.

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Re: Overhead Fire in Short Range

Post by Gaius Cassius on Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:45 pm

The problem Frazer is that units do not block LOS and may be visible to the firing unit even though a friendly unit intervenes. So 6.3.4 doesn'T necessarily apply here.
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Re: Overhead Fire in Short Range

Post by frazer on Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:17 pm

hello

LOS and LOF...two different things...

units friendly and enemy dont block line of sight, but do block line of fire.

i think....bugger  i hope.... Question

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Re: Overhead Fire in Short Range

Post by RogerC on Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:19 pm

Yes, LOS isn't affected by units and depends on terrain. A unit to which the LOS is blocked cannot be targeted for missile fire.

However, 6.3.2 talks about 'visibility' and defines that in terms of uninterrupted corner to corner lines. Terrain doesn't come into that but I think units interrupt the lines. You cannot fire at a unit which isn't 'visible'.

We had a long thread about interruption of the corner to corner lines, so I'm not trying to re-open that. I'm just agreeing with frazer that there seem to be two different ideas here with LOS and visibility.

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Re: Overhead Fire in Short Range

Post by dadiepiombo on Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:25 pm

Indirect fire uses the same priorities than direct fire. Simply is done when a unit of yours (not an enemy unit) is between (even partially) the firing unit and the target. Still the target must be farer then the friendly unit.
So the presence of unit in-between is the only difference.
Now, without the rules on indirect fire the firer simply cannot fire.


Last edited by dadiepiombo on Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Overhead Fire in Short Range

Post by Zippee on Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:17 pm

RogerC wrote:We had a long thread about interruption of the corner to corner lines, so I'm not trying to re-open that. RogerC

Oh go on, it was such fun last time, surely worth repeating Shocked
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