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Vapnartak York Feb 2018- format options?

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Hi everyone

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Generals; Routs

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Generals; Routs

Post by jorneto on Fri Jan 09, 2015 7:16 pm

A couple more suggestions

1 - Mobile generals
I propose to let a general move to, and attach himself, to any unit listed as “general capable”.
In that way he becomes a more active piece in the game.

Also, I think is presence could be more influential: besides cohesion, he could give a “+1” in combat.

With those capabilities, their points cost should also be changed to make them more expensive than off-table generals.


2 - Effects of routs
I think routs could have more impact than they actually have. I propose changing the area of effect to a radius of 5U, with two possible situations:

a) Directly behind within 5U = as current rule
b) other directions within 5U = have to pass a test against current VBU (and general if applicable). Failure to pass gives disorder.

Units already disordered don’t need to test.

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Re: Generals; Routs

Post by Gaius Cassius on Sat Jan 10, 2015 2:00 pm

The lack of mobile generals in Impetus was initially something I didn't like. But upon reflection and after years of playing Impetus I have changed my mind. Generals did tend to attach themselves to specific units and the range of the general that allows units to use his rally dice does give some effect to generals moving about. But the idea that generals moved from unit to unit in this period is something that I don't think was done.

The one change that I'd like to see is how unattached generals are represented. I think they should be on the table top and allowed to move about to extend the range of influence. As it stands unattached generals aren't really a great option in Impetus and I've never seen it used in my playing experience. Scipio and Hannibal probably stood back in a way different from Alexander.

With respect to the effects of rout I think your idea is interesting although I would make the test against the discipline not current VBU. With that said I think the current system works reasonably well. The importance of command VD means that as units rout the overall cohesion of the command starts to break down. Considering that commands break after 50% loss of VD and that an army can theoretically break after losing just above 25% of their VD represents the impact of routing units. Impetus is a game of VD in the end and the effects of routing units are very real.
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Re: Generals; Routs

Post by Dennis Maxentius on Sun Jan 11, 2015 12:48 pm

I think the system works well as it is and the progressive deterioration of units is represented by the disorder and gradual attrition of units which leads to the eventual rout of a unit and other adverse effects.

The idea of a General giving a +1 bonus in melee is interesting.

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Re: Generals; Routs

Post by Granicus Gaugamela on Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:03 am

I'd prefer Generals to give a "half bonus rounded down", so a General rated 0 or 1 gives no bonus, 2 or 3 gives +1 bonus, 4 gives +2 bonus.

Feel free to round up if you prefer that.

I wouldn't give an extra bonus in melee, just for discipline tests and cohesion tests.

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Re: Generals; Routs

Post by Nick B on Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:12 pm

Presumably if a general gives a combat bonus then there should also be a commensurate increase in any risk roll ro him? This would represent him being at the front of the combat rather than simply with the unit an possibly lurking at the rear.


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Re: Generals; Routs

Post by Gaius Cassius on Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:33 pm

I like the system the way it is. The +1 benefit on the CT is a big deal and impacts on the melee as a whole.
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Re: Generals; Routs

Post by Aztec Cowboy on Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:43 am

Generals in histories/accounts that I have read had the effect to the observer of these events was a inspirational morale impact to the unit that they joined giving them a better staying power, confidence, more steady rather than a better fighting capability.
Histories like Julius Caesar in his Gallic campaigns.

Julius Caesar is noted in those histories transferring from fighting with some cohorts to then remount to go to another Cohort of another Legion to fight further. At Alesia and in that encounter battle where a Gallic tribe tried to ambush his army on the march and the 10th legion 1st made a name for itself (sorry cannot remember which battle by name)

Emperor Julian in 350's AD against the Alamanni @Argentoratum did similar when he left the centre Legions to rally the retreating Roman right wing Cavalry especially the contingent of Cataphracts. Stopped them and convinced them to hold in reserve positions on the flank and later join the pursuit of the routing Germans after he returned to the centre to participate in stopping a breach in the 1st line of three.

One of the only historical rally's I have ever read. I am sure there is a few more that I don't know but how would that be added to the rules considering Julian was an exceptional inspiring General. Did Ramses II against the Hittites do something similar?

Regards
AC.

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Re: Generals; Routs

Post by Aztec Cowboy on Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:06 pm

I believe that routs are more than generous where a modern unit talks of heavy casualties at 10%.

Most vast majority of casualties to ancient and medieval armies occurred after the battle in the pursuit.

AC.

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