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New rules in Advanced Impetus 2015

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Re: New rules in Advanced Impetus 2015

Post by jeztodd on Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:29 pm

Happy that you might want to tinker with the rules and can pick up the changes as they come out.

Think would be resistant to anything that makes the game "more fiddly" though .... and slows the game down. I think going through a longer check list of factors is where we came from in wargame rules .
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Re: New rules in Advanced Impetus 2015

Post by dadiepiombo on Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:38 pm

flank support may cause some more extra (but easy) calculation. But adding some more dice make the melee a little bit bloodier.
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Re: New rules in Advanced Impetus 2015

Post by Aurelius on Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:59 pm

Base depth has been of little importance so far in Impetus, but with the supported flank bonus it becomes significant. For the 25mm game the depth of an FP base is 2U or optionally 3U. If I've understood the proposal correctly, and assuming FP bases of 2U depth are in line to start with, then if an adjacent unit recoils 1U it will still support its adjacent friend. If it recoils 2U it will only have corner contact, and if 3U then contact is lost. So FP bases 3U deep would appear to be an advantage.

In the 15mm game an FP base is either 3U or optionally 4U deep, the two games will play differently, but still favour the deeper bases.

If the support rule was defined as being "at or within 3U" of the front edge of the combat unit, then base depth would again be irrelevent and the 15mm game play the same as the 25mm, at least in this respect.

Just an idea.

TD

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Re: New rules in Advanced Impetus 2015

Post by dadiepiombo on Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:20 am

wellI have most of FP on deeper bases, but this isnot the reason for the change Very Happy
I have done in thise way as they look better, but always suffered in case of interpenetration.

You have pros and cons now to have deeper bases.
At the end it is just 1U of difference, so much depend on the roll of the dice when you follow up or retreat.
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Re: New rules in Advanced Impetus 2015

Post by frazer on Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:05 am

IF base depth matters?? (which i agree it doesnt) then isnt it easier to say that the flanker counts if aligned corner to corner.

the being within 3U is fiddly.

best to try keep thing simple and straight forward. a line is a line when they are all in perfect alignment.

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Re: New rules in Advanced Impetus 2015

Post by Nick B on Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:38 am

Yes - I would agree with frazer. front corner to corner is much simpler to understand and avoids arguing about just in/just out distance.

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Re: New rules in Advanced Impetus 2015

Post by dadiepiombo on Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:48 pm

perferct alignement is about impossible at it lasts for a very few time. Troops move up and down and you have to manage to keep a line even if not perfect. Choosng if it is worth to pursuit (if you can choose) or not.
The advantage for deepr bases is very limited and compensated by other disvantages (interpenetration, attacks on flanks)
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Re: New rules in Advanced Impetus 2015

Post by Gaius Cassius on Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:20 pm

Yes, I agree with Lorenzo. Protected flanks is most easily represented by having supporting units touching the side of another unit and not the more exacting corner to corner method.
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Re: New rules in Advanced Impetus 2015

Post by Jim Webster on Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:36 pm

The problem with insisting on 'front corner to front corner' is that you move things closer to DBx. Not that I'm knocking DBx but the joy of Impetus is that with regards movement, conforming and all the rest of it, it isn't DBx and avoids all the problems with geometry.

I prefer that we just have sides touching

Jim
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Re: New rules in Advanced Impetus 2015

Post by accard on Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:49 am

The official amendments only show CL and S getting a +1 bonus for evading. For a B class unit this means they will not evade 1/3 of the time.
Seems quite harsh, I don't see how LH armies will cope frankly, especially agaisnt armies with any mounted capability. LH need to get within 15u to have effective fire, and enemy mounted will just make two moves and catch at least some of them.

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Re: New rules in Advanced Impetus 2015

Post by dadiepiombo on Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:02 pm

an error! immediately corrected, thank you for noticing! It is +2.
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Re: New rules in Advanced Impetus 2015

Post by Gaius Cassius on Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:57 pm

Wanted to say that we gave the new Impetus rules a try last night. Three very different armies, Lysimachos (Successor), Scandinavian, and Late French Ordonnance.

We really like the changes overall. We didn't see a lot of the change in CM, CL and CGL retreats happen but the rule change seems good to us.

With respect to evading we like the idea of the test. One question we did have was whether an attached general figures into the computation. Previously CM evading factored this in but in the modifications in the changed rule there is no mention of attached leaders. We think it should be included.    

With respect to secure flanks we really liked the idea but we feel there needs to be a lot more explanation and supporting rules to make this work. For instance, what about a secure flank from a unit that had advanced farther than the main unit but is still in contact with it on the flank. Does it count (we think so?) What about a large unit that has moved forward and the back unit of the large unit is in contact with the flank of the main unit? Again we played it as if it provide a covered flank.

We think the basing depth of units makes a difference. One of our group based his FP on 5cm depth instead of 4 cm depth. This could give him an added advantage. How to limit this advantage in depth seemed to us to be relevant. FP based on 6cm depth has a real advantage in this rule change.

Overall however we think covered flanks helps reduce the power of large units. And the added die for being better in quality adds up. We were wondering if A class troops shouldn't get a 2 dice bonus when fighting C class troops.
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Re: New rules in Advanced Impetus 2015

Post by dadiepiombo on Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:09 pm

Attached generals. Yes they counts. It is like a normal Discipline test, with 2 more modifiers.

Flank support. Probably more clarification will need in the future, but so far the explain your cases.
If there is a partial contact (side by side) the support counts.
For Large Units is is only the frontal Units to count. So if a Frontal Unit is in contact with a rear unit of another LU, there is no support.

I will prepare some diagrams anyway.

Deeper Units (basically FP) may have and advantage but this is somewhat balanced by other disvantages (interpenetration and flank charges).

I think +1 for different Discipline should be enough. But nothing is written in the stone until Impetus 2.
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Re: New rules in Advanced Impetus 2015

Post by Tarty on Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:14 am

Have missed a bit while away on holidays it seems.

I like the sound of most of it so far but yes maybe a few too many changes so close to Cancon Starkers I agree ....especially to spring on the newbies that have entered.

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Re: New rules in Advanced Impetus 2015

Post by starkadder on Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:24 am

I accept that Richard but the paradox is that, with newbies, they don't know the rules anyway so a few more don't count.

It was the old grumblers who cut up rough. I have a feeling they wouldn't have been much use at Cannae. Smile
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