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retreating units contacting enemy?

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retreating units contacting enemy?

Post by aphillathehun on Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:26 pm


What happens to a retreating unit that contacts enemy? In the rules it says that if the retreat cannot even start the unit is destroyed. But what if you can retreat, but not your full retreat move, because you contact enemy?

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Re: retreating units contacting enemy?

Post by Gaius Cassius on Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:18 pm

You stop when you touch the enemy. If the unit is forced to retreat again it is destroyed.
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Re: retreating units contacting enemy?

Post by aphillathehun on Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:45 pm

Thanks. Is this written in the rules somewhere? I've not been able to find it.

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Re: retreating units contacting enemy?

Post by Gaius Cassius on Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:53 am

The old Forum is treasure trove of information. Here is a discussion of the question you ask between PilGrim and DAX. I am on PilGrim's side in this discussion. If you keep looking I am sure you'll find a more definitive discussion. What I gave above was based on certain surmises in the rules plus years of reading on the old Forum. For your benefit I hope Lorenzo answers you.

http://impetus.forumsland.com/impetus-about4132.html&highlight=retreat
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Re: retreating units contacting enemy?

Post by jeztodd on Mon Jan 26, 2015 5:01 pm

Hi this is a good question and would be good to get the exact answer. I think I have been playing that if you retreat and contact the enemy you are routed.

(sorry not followed through on the old thread discussion BUT to be honest would this constitute the appropriate place for a definitive answer? Surprised we have not picked this up in the approved changes to date)

Cheers Jez
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Re: retreating units contacting enemy?

Post by Gaius Cassius on Mon Jan 26, 2015 5:36 pm

Yes, we could use an interpretation from Lorenzo.
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Re: retreating units contacting enemy?

Post by Granicus Gaugamela on Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:31 pm

From memory Lorenzo did confirm somewhere the "if you can move a millimetre you get one more chance to live" ruling. Up to that point we had been playing "unable to retreat equals doom".

Without opening that can of worms again if you retreat into contact do you fight another melee? Presumably after the frontal attacker has also had their chance to follow up.

And if you do fight a melee can the unit you have retreated into claim an ability to charge you or any other reason to get Impetus against the hapless enemy running toward them?

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Re: retreating units contacting enemy?

Post by Gaius Cassius on Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:51 pm

I have never seen a unit retreat into an enemy unit that is facing towards it but I have seen a unit retreat into the backside of an enemy unit. In fact there was an interesting discussion on the old Forum of using friendly skirmishers to block the retreat paths of enemy units. S troops without impetus cannot contact enemy units but they can be contacted by enemy units moving backwards into them. In that case the retreating units stops and should it be forced to retreat it is immediately routed/destroyed. In the case of retreating into contact with an enemy unit on that unit's front I would presume that it cause another round of melee (regardless of what the pursuing unit does.)
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Re: retreating units contacting enemy?

Post by Granicus Gaugamela on Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:23 am

Gaius Cassius wrote:I have never seen a unit retreat into an enemy unit that is facing towards it but I have seen a unit retreat into the backside of an enemy unit. In fact there was an interesting discussion on the old Forum of using friendly skirmishers to block the retreat paths of enemy units. S troops without impetus cannot contact enemy units but they can be contacted by enemy units moving backwards into them. In that case the retreating units stops and should it be forced to retreat it is immediately routed/destroyed.  In the case of retreating into contact with an enemy unit on that unit's front I would presume that it cause another round of melee (regardless of what the pursuing unit does.)

Seems logical but I can't find a definitive rule anywhere.

Normally there's the "can't react to a reaction" maxim, so no triggering ZOC's when retreating for example, but if you get pushed back into full contact then I would agree that is totally different.

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Re: retreating units contacting enemy?

Post by Tarty on Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:33 am

Yep we've always played it if you can retreat any amount of the required distance then you get a second chance.
If the retreat is only a millimetre then the recontact with the pursuit is automatic....not normally a great position for the retreater most of the time anyway.
Next round of melee and you get pushed back again with nowhere to go then yes it's a rout.
I would agree with your last statement as well Gaius retreating onto the front of an enemy unit would trigger a new melee if the pursuer couldn't keep contact.
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Re: retreating units contacting enemy?

Post by aphillathehun on Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:51 pm


Lots of possibilities. I don't want to get into a situation like there was in DBM with creating "elbows of death". In our case the unit was forced to retreat into the front egde of light horse that had worked around a flank. If you were to fight a new melee how would that work? I'm assuming you count it as light horse hitting a unit in the rear.

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Re: retreating units contacting enemy?

Post by Granicus Gaugamela on Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:39 pm

That's what I would think. The retreaters are trying to tear their way to freedom, the light horse are a touch surprised and try to cut them down.

Such are the risk of being a fleet of foot lightly armed unit moving in the enemy rear.

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Re: retreating units contacting enemy?

Post by Gaius Cassius on Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:04 pm

What you describe aphil is something that I've never seen before and I've played hundreds of games of Impetus. To get CL around the flank of an enemy and then have the front facing the rear of the enemy is pretty tough to do in Impetus. Not impossible but not a common event either.
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Re: retreating units contacting enemy?

Post by aphillathehun on Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:57 pm


Interesting. I did it in my second game!

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Re: retreating units contacting enemy?

Post by Gaius Cassius on Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:17 pm

Then give thanks to your opponent's carelessness!!
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Re: retreating units contacting enemy?

Post by Dennis Maxentius on Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:28 am

From the old forum, you still live to fight another day even if you can only move back 1mm. It's when you can't move at all that you rout.

I have managed to get in the flank and rear of an opponent with CL and it's not necessarily through his carelessness.

Cheers,

Dennis
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