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Potential Charges and Evading

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Potential Charges and Evading

Post by Gaius Cassius on Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:51 pm

We had a couple of questions based on our games last night.

1. A FP charges a S unit 4 U away. Can the FP use its bonus dice for extra distance? I think we’ve seen question on the old Forum. We ruled no on the premise that bonus dice is only used to contact units beyond the normal movement distance. If the FP charged an FL at 7U and there was an enemy S at 4U the FP could claim the bonus die for extra distance. What do others think.

2. A FP charges a S 7.5U away. The FP needs to roll a 5+ on the bonus dice to contact the S. Is the proper sequence.

1. FP states that he is occupying the ground of the S.
2. S decides to stand or evade and in the later case rolls a DT and if passing moves away.
3. FP rolls for die for bonus charge movement and moves.

Or

1. FP states that he is occupying the ground of the S.
2. S decides to stand or evade.
3. FP rolls for die for bonus charge movement.
4. If FP has sufficient distance to occupy the ground the S then makes the DT to evade.

Or some other set of steps. The problem is what to do when the unit engaging in a potential charge do not move far enough to occupy the ground of units capable of evading.
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Re: Potential Charges and Evading

Post by SteveI42 on Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:33 am

I'd say;
1- yes they can but will be disirdered at the end as it is then a charge which fails to make contact
2- your first option. The S choose before the distance is rolled. There is a similar example in the rule book relating to counter charges.

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Re: Potential Charges and Evading

Post by Granicus Gaugamela on Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:07 pm

Gaius Cassius wrote:

1. A FP charges a S unit 4 U away. Can the FP use its bonus dice for extra distance?

I'd say if it were called up front then the intention is very clear and it's ok. The FP see the enemy and want to engage, it matters not if they are the skirmishers or the troops behind them, they're just being bloodthirsty and the red mist is up.


Gaius Cassius wrote:
2. A FP charges a S 7.5U away. The FP needs to roll a 5+ on the bonus dice to contact the S. Is the proper sequence.

1. FP states that he is occupying the ground of the S.
2. S decides to stand or evade and in the later case rolls a DT and if passing moves away.  
3. FP rolls for die for bonus charge movement and moves.

Or  

1. FP states that he is occupying the ground of the S.
2. S decides to stand or evade.  
3. FP rolls for die for bonus charge movement.
4. If FP has sufficient distance to occupy the ground the S then makes the DT to evade.  

I'd say as soon as you announce the charge teh S must make their decision after which you roll bonus distance.

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Re: Potential Charges and Evading

Post by Gaius Cassius on Sat Nov 14, 2015 11:08 pm

Seems reasonable overall. Thanks. The FP in the first example was a disordered warband and the player was attempting to get more movement from the unit than normally possible by charging the S and using the bonus charge move (even though he could already contact it through a normal move.) Does that seem okay to your thinking?
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Re: Potential Charges and Evading

Post by Granicus Gaugamela on Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:19 am

Gaius Cassius wrote:Seems reasonable overall. Thanks. The FP in the first example was a disordered warband and the player was attempting to get more movement from the unit than normally possible by charging the S and using the bonus charge move (even though he could already contact it through a normal move.) Does that seem okay to your thinking?

I'd actually say it should be mandatory for warband to make contact if they can, including forcing a charge roll if need be. They're a bunch of seriously bloodthirsty lunatics trying to rip your guts out, weapons are a tool they use only because they can't do it as readily with their bare hands! (OK so that's a cliche, but it works for me)

Then it's up to the S, do they stand, possibly break the warband impetus (allowing for breakthrough movement) and take one for the team so their mates are a bit protected and can counterattack the warband when they are stationary or do they do the sensible thing and get the Frick out of there?

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Re: Potential Charges and Evading

Post by Geoffrm on Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:49 pm

My understanding is that a potential charge is a normal move with no dice throw for extra move distance. If you throw dice for extra move it is a normal charge move and failure to contact results in you being disordered.

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Re: Potential Charges and Evading

Post by Gaius Cassius on Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:53 pm

A potential charge can become a normal move as long as the bonus charge move is not used. Should the unit use its bonus dice to contact the enemy then the charge cannot be a potential charge.
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Re: Potential Charges and Evading

Post by Granicus Gaugamela on Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:55 pm

Gaius Cassius wrote:A potential charge can become a normal move as long as the bonus charge move is not used. Should the unit use its bonus dice to contact the enemy then the charge cannot be a potential charge.

Given the additional context of disordered warband wanting to make their one allowed movement it makes perfect sense for them to declare the charge at the rear unit and if the S stand in the way then so be it.

Actually, just got home and access to my rulebook, 5.8.1 Charge Movement Bonus covers it:

"If there are Skirmishers or Artillery (see 7.8 and 7.9) between the charging unit and the target Unit, or troops that can be dispersed without interrupting movement, the fact that you reach these Units does not exclude the Disorder if the target of the charge is not reached"

So it would seem you can declare a charge on the rear Unit, the S must then make their choice and you proceed from there.

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Re: Potential Charges and Evading

Post by dadiepiombo on Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:50 pm

point 1
if you use the bonus then is not a pontential charge but a real charge. You may fail the contact in case of evasion, but still a charge is (a failed charge)

point 2 (just to clear)
you cannot use the bonus charge if also with the bonus you cannot reach the enemy (and you want just to more more, maybe with a disordered unit that has nothing to loose)

point 3
you can use the bonus to reach the Unit behind a S (or any evading troop). If the S will not evade it will be dispersed and you can complete the move. The fact that you contacted the S doesn't prevent the disorder if the Unit behind was not reached.


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Re: Potential Charges and Evading

Post by Gaius Cassius on Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:36 am

Thanks Lorenzo.

Can the unit charging roll for its charge bonus distance when the target in question is within its normal move distance (as above an FP charges the S 4U away?)

In most cases this is a moot point but when charging units that can evade it could sometimes occur.
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Re: Potential Charges and Evading

Post by dadiepiombo on Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:44 pm

yes you can. Of course you end in disorder.
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