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Genius generals

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Re: Genius generals

Post by accard on Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:03 pm

Hi Jeztodd,

for this tournament I used one genius and one fair commander at 550 points. Genius was with the smaller command so I could flank march with him.
Did 2 FMs in 5 games - they both came on first turn.

When deployed on table and if I wanted the other player to move first I just kept nominating my C in Cs command. Only rolled snakes eyes for him in two games - once so late it didn't matter.

As Cyrus points out, it was gimmicky. I think FMs are too easy as it stands.

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Re: Genius generals

Post by accard on Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:23 pm

One reason why FMs are needed in the game though is to counter players using the edge of the board as impassable flank protection. So typically anchoring one flank on terrain and the other on the table edge.

So in this case the FM is not really a Flank March in a real sense, just manouvering a command off table. I dont have a big problem with it in this case - but till think it too easy to achieve and too devastating currently.

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Re: Genius generals

Post by Tarty on Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:53 am

Yeah I'm pretty torn when it comes to flank marches as well.
We've started to employ largest command and highest ranked general 'must be on table' ... think this has helped in tournaments ( cut back on players attempting them ) and brought the contest back to a more balanced straight up fight.
Friendly / club games ? sure not such an issue Smile
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Re: Genius generals

Post by Gaius Cassius on Sat Jan 30, 2016 3:21 am

It is an issue even in our club games because we use the tournament rules for them.

I don't want to take FMs out of Impetus but something less decisive and less a crap shoot would make for better games in my opinion.

If GG is correct and FMs are really more a working around the flank and the arbitrary limits of the table edge I am sure there is a reasonable compromise available.
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Re: Genius generals

Post by Granicus Gaugamela on Sat Jan 30, 2016 3:45 am

starkadder wrote:

I feel that too much is read into the word "flank" in Impetus. As I play only 28mm, I rarely think of 350-400 pt battles as the whole field.

To me, it represents a part of the battlefield. Hence, when attacks appear from a flank they represent something freed or made available from another sector.

This is a rationalisation, I know, but it is the only way I can justify the sudden mysterious appearance of a substantial force on the table. For instance, I have been flanked and outpaced by a Scottish infantry force while playing with Seljuq CL. It doesn't make sense without thinking that they are "already there".

That would work, and the presence of the Genius could be rationalised as the CinC spotting either a weakness in the enemy line he is seeking to exploit or realising that a part of his forces are badly outnumbered and leading some rushing reserves.

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Re: Genius generals

Post by Granicus Gaugamela on Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:04 am

accard wrote:Hi Jeztodd,

for this tournament I used one genius and one fair commander at 550 points. Genius was with the smaller command so I could flank march with him.
Did 2 FMs in 5 games - they both came on first turn.

It led to what was easily one of the best games I have ever had. Post deployment it was obvious something was up and given the elements missing a flank march was the logical conclusion. My "reserve" command was moving to cover territory to prevent you getting in behind my "strike" command, but given you arrived at the end of turn 1 the "strike" had to deal with you appearing everywhere, order went out the window, there were about faces, units were pushed as hard as I could to get them to face you and also leave me enough to hold you off when you appeared on the other side and it was a tight run thing. Even the heavy cavalry hidden in ambush had to be committed to stabilise that flank. And it was a near run thing. Frigging sensational game. I was wracking my brain for anything to relieve the situation, complete disruption ensued.


accard wrote:
When deployed on table and if I wanted the other player to move first I just kept nominating my C in Cs command.

The best part of a Genius General when used cunningly....

accard wrote:
As Cyrus points out, it was gimmicky. I think FMs are too easy as it stands.

As a counter Glen tried one on me for the last game and he never came on which meant he broke very quickly and had to face the full force of my full army vs 66% of his guys. As soon as one command broke that was it, game over.

Maybe we need some form of penalty if a flank attack fails, everyone left takes a demoralisation or something. Maybe a leader casualty check with a serious penalty applied, no counting mounted bonus or LESSER leadership level benefits for instance.

And if the CinC goes off on a flank march the on table Command Radius reduces to Poor as some subordinate tries to act as brevet CinC.

Or maybe some other penalty(s) that reflect/s the importance of both the CinC, the effect of him missing and the importance of a failed flank attack.

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Re: Genius generals

Post by accard on Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:51 am

It was a good and tough game and I learned a few valuable lessons for next time!

I'd be happy if there was more downside to FMs.

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Re: Genius generals

Post by Tarty on Sat Jan 30, 2016 6:30 am

Getting back to the original post re Genius generals...there has been some discussion about giving them the flick altogether in this neck of the woods (for comps).
Little bit of discussion like " well if you take an Alexander Carthaginian or maybe a Caesar there could be an argument for it....but anyone else ? well you'll have to make do with an expert Smile "
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Re: Genius generals

Post by accard on Sat Jan 30, 2016 6:53 am

Would you allow Charismatic generals?

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Re: Genius generals

Post by Tarty on Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:42 am

Charismatic generals aren't nearly as influential they can almost be a liability at times . The game Ralph played agains't you GG at the last Moab for example Smile ....losing his charismatic general at a particularly inopportune time cost him the game in one bad roll of the dice. I remember looking over and thinking wow looks like he's getting the upper hand then the next minute his whole army had shot thru Shocked
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Re: Genius generals

Post by Granicus Gaugamela on Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:30 am

Tarty wrote:Charismatic generals aren't nearly as influential they can almost be a liability at times  . The game Ralph played agains't you GG at the last Moab for example Smile ....losing his charismatic general at a particularly inopportune time cost him the game in one bad roll of the dice. I remember looking over and thinking wow looks like he's getting the upper hand then the next minute his whole army had shot thru Shocked  

Charismatic Generals in armies with non Good command structures (-4 on the roll) increase the risk most certainly, keep them mounted as an absolute minimum (-2), Average command structure is another -2 so you at least counter the +4 for his rank.

Actually, maybe that's part of the answer. If the CinC (defined as the highest rated general) comes under threat via the 6 Cohesion test or if his unit flees the field for any reason, we apply DOUBLE his rating modifier. So a Charismatic or Genius gives a +8 to the effects roll. Sure they can reroll one or both dice, but at +8 if you send them on a flank march with all the associated risks then you ARE taking an enhanced risk by putting them in the face of danger.

I think that makes sense, if the CinC goes down that will have a bigger effect than an equally good general who isn't the spiritual head of the army.

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