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Large unit - close combat

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Large unit - close combat

Post by sowabud on Wed Mar 16, 2016 8:35 am

Can you explain to me how the close combat of a large unit looks like, where it consists of 3 bases pikemen and one skirmish (Doppelsöldner) and skirmish base is the first base in the unit. How should I calculate the VBU of large unit? Is VBU of skirmishers added to the VBU pikemen, or it is not taken into account at all. Similarly, if the first base is T or S base with shooting ability can I shoot and then fight in close combat with S or T base in the front?.

Maybe the answer is somewhere on the Forum, but I can not find it.

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Re: Large unit - close combat

Post by jeztodd on Wed Mar 16, 2016 12:52 pm

Hi hope this helps .....

If the S units are at the front and in contact then they fight separately first. The S Doppelsoldner are an unusual S unit in that they can have impetus into combat but simply fight once and are then dispersed. Hopefully the 3+3 dice in contact have at least managed to damage the enemy unit.

The S shot skirmish unit is not really designed for close contact so you may want to consider evading them if they are charged. They cannot charge into contact. If they are contacted they are dispersed as per rules details.

Once an enemy hit the Pike unit you will have the VBU of the front unit dice and will have support dice from the second and third ranks. Any damage in contact gets taken off the rear rank.

Overall the S Doppelsoldner are quite a difficult unit to use - they can burst through and interpenetrate the FP pike figures so it is possible to move them from the back of the pike through and to hit any enemy - as highlighted though they are strictly a "one hit wonder".

You can have a T shooter unit in front of the Pike FP and these can shoot and if they are contacted in a charge will have a normal VBU dice roll. If they are pushed back they can move through the pike block.


Cheers Jez
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Re: Large unit - close combat

Post by Gaius Cassius on Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:11 pm

Further clarification on what Jez has said.

The S Doppelsoldner are a completely separate unit from the Pike block. One does not support the other in melee.

The S Doppelsoldner do not necessarily only fight once. S troops are automatically dispersed when a moving body with impetus touches them. If the S Doppelsoldner charge and win or tie in a melee then the opposing side cannot move to disperse. So it is possible for the S Doppelsoldner to be contact with the opposing side for several turns. Should it win melees it can continue to advance. Should the S Doppelsoldner lose in a melee it would retreat and if contacted in pursuit by a formed unit it would automatically disperse. Should a formed enemy body enter into an ongoing melee against the S Doppelsoldner then the S Doppelsoldner would be in automatically dispersed. So it is a bit risky to keep them on the front line. If the S Doppelsoldner charged by a formed body in open ground it must evade or it will be automatically dispersed.
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Re: Large unit - close combat

Post by jeztodd on Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:11 pm

Gaius thanks - had not been playing them this way, much more value for the points as you describe.

Cheers Jez
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Re: Large unit - close combat

Post by Gaius Cassius on Wed Mar 16, 2016 7:04 pm

For 16 points they should be good. 3+3 against a weakened opponent could be decisive. Still, I think S with impetus are mostly S killers.
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Re: Large unit - close combat

Post by Cyrus The Adequate on Wed Mar 16, 2016 7:43 pm

GC is that your own interpretation of Doppelsoldner or something clarified here by Lorenzo - I dont think it chimes with what I remember him saying?
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Re: Large unit - close combat

Post by Gaius Cassius on Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:00 pm

In truth I can't remember Cyrus but I am hopeful that I am correct on this. Very Happy  

If you look at 7.8 it states that "Skirmishers not completely in Difficult Ground are automatically dispersed if charged by any sort of troops, except for those that cannot voluntarily contact the enemy (I=0), Elephants and Scythed Chariots."

I don't know of anywhere where it states in Impetus that Skirmishers are dispersed by themselves charging/contacting enemy troops. In most cases S units cannot contact enemy formations because they have an I=0. In the case of Doppelsoldner they do have impetus and can therefore charge enemy formations. If they are the moving unit then they do not disperse.

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Re: Large unit - close combat

Post by Gaius Cassius on Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:14 pm

Cyrus, I am incorrect on one matter after looking at the rules and the Old Forum. Any unit not listed as an exception in 7.8 is able to disperse S units. That means that a Doppelsoldner unit that contacts an enemy S unit automatically disperses it.
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Re: Large unit - close combat

Post by sowabud on Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:36 pm

Thank You for your clarification

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