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Flank attacks, pursuit moves, and skirmishers

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Flank attacks, pursuit moves, and skirmishers

Post by AncientWarrior on Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:05 am

Greetings gentlemen experts,

Apologize for the varied subject matter, but I was hoping to secure confirmation and clarification before embarking on a planned Impetvs contest.

Question 1: If a unit that is disordered is attacked in the flank, does it lose a VBU point?
7.2.2 sub-rule 1 states that units attacked in the flank are immediately disordered. If a unit already marked disordered is attacked in the flank, would that count as a “double-disorder” and thereby reduce the VBU by 1 for the subsequent melee?

Would there be an additional negative modifier applied to the melee roll due to the “double-disorder”?


Question 2: In section 7.6.4, Pursuit Moves are detailed/explained. I read this as there being two (2) options. The first is having the winner move straight ahead or forward. The second involves the geometry of the imaginary lines and wheeling by the victors and then the pursuit.

Which is the preferred or more accepted procedure?


Question 3: Section 7.8 speaks to the dispersion of skirmishers. If charged from the front and in anything other than difficult ground, skirmishers are dispersed.

But section 5.11.1 provides that skirmishers can evade. It is a free move, a full move to the rear.

So, if I have a unit of slingers and they are charged by some pikemen or legionary infantry on an open plain, I can simply declare that the slingers are evading and move them straight back 8Us, right? Or, are the slingers dispersed by being charged on open terrain?


Thanks in advance for the clarifications.

Cheers,
Chris

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Re: Flank attacks, pursuit moves, and skirmishers

Post by Tarty on Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:35 am

Shall do my best Smile
1 No if already disordered it's not cumulative.
2 You can choose either options doesn't seem to be a preferred option. Sometimes a wheel will prevent recontact (increases the distance between the two units)
3 Yes you can declare an evasion but it has to be rolled for now with a discipline test. -2 to the roll for skirmishers trying to evade. Then move them back 8U yes.
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Re: Flank attacks, pursuit moves, and skirmishers

Post by AncientWarrior on Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:51 am

Thanks very much for the clarification.

Was not aware of the amendment re skirmishers and evasion.

Cheers -
Chris

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Re: Flank attacks, pursuit moves, and skirmishers

Post by dadiepiombo on Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:28 am

Chris, if you have not done yet, download Advanced Impetus that is a pdf that collects clarifications and amendments

http://dadiepiombo.it/pdf/advancedeng2015.pdf
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Re: Flank attacks, pursuit moves, and skirmishers

Post by AncientWarrior on Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:48 am

Lorenzo,

Thanks. I do have the latest version. However, I have not found the specific reference to the -2 evasion modifier for skirmishers. Guess I need to do some re-reading this week.

Toying with the idea of drafting a house rule for attacking the flank of an already disordered unit . . .

Thanks again.
Chris

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Re: Flank attacks, pursuit moves, and skirmishers

Post by Gaius Cassius on Sun Apr 03, 2016 6:16 pm

AncientWarrior wrote:Lorenzo,

Thanks. I do have the latest version. However, I have not found the specific reference to the -2 evasion modifier for skirmishers. Guess I need to do some re-reading this week.

Modifiers to Discipline Test require for Evading:
+2 if the evading Unit is CL or S
-1 if the evading Unit is disordered
Units on opportunity don’t need to pass a test to evade

AncientWarrior wrote: Toying with the idea of drafting a house rule for attacking the flank of an already disordered unit . . .

How does the current rule not work properly in your opinion?
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Re: Flank attacks, pursuit moves, and skirmishers

Post by Cyrus The Adequate on Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:09 am

[quote="Gaius Cassius"]
AncientWarrior wrote:
AncientWarrior wrote: Toying with the idea of drafting a house rule for attacking the flank of an already disordered unit . . .

How does the current rule not work properly in your opinion?

I would be wary of changing that as the knock on implications would have to be thought through - for instance does that casualty count towards the result of the mellee and therefore the "everyone dies" clause?

Just a thought
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Re: Flank attacks, pursuit moves, and skirmishers

Post by Granicus Gaugamela on Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:43 am

AncientWarrior wrote:
Toying with the idea of drafting a house rule for attacking the flank of an already disordered unit
Chris

Bear in mind that one of the important aspects of Impetus is consequences.

Troops can fight like mad pricks despite being smashed from pillar to post in traditional "hits inflicted" terms if they pass cohesion tests.

Troops hit on the flank have a greatly reduced chance of doing so, their opponent gets a couple of bonus dice and then if the dice pool and cohesion test determines that the flanked troops suffer more casualties their morale breaks and they run away.

No matter how strong they were at the start of the fatal melee.

Methinks that is a consequential penalty commensurate with being flanked, we don't need to stack the odds even further.

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Re: Flank attacks, pursuit moves, and skirmishers

Post by AncientWarrior on Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:29 am

Hmmm - Tarty says that it's a minus 2 to the skirmishers trying to evade, while GC informs that it's a plus 2 for skirmishers trying to evade.


Find it somewhat ironic that there is such an apparent backlash when folks suggest or think about toying with rule amendments for their own table tops - and yet we're on what? - version 1.7 of the amendments - and an official 2nd edition of Impetvs is coming out soon.

Should have learned my lesson after saying something about the elephant rules.

Have learned it now.

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Re: Flank attacks, pursuit moves, and skirmishers

Post by Tarty on Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:17 pm

AncientWarrior wrote:Hmmm - Tarty says that it's a minus 2 to the skirmishers trying to evade, while GC informs that it's a plus 2 for skirmishers trying to evade.
Sorry my typo...+2 GC is correct.
Go for it Chris change the flank rules and let us know how it goes  ....think it's healthy for things to be questioned and new rules tried. Version 1.7 of the amendments and Impetus 2 around the corner this is what a 'living breathing' set of rules looks like isn't it ? Smile
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Re: Flank attacks, pursuit moves, and skirmishers

Post by Cyrus The Adequate on Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:33 pm

Tarty wrote:
AncientWarrior wrote:Hmmm - Tarty says that it's a minus 2 to the skirmishers trying to evade, while GC informs that it's a plus 2 for skirmishers trying to evade.
Sorry my typo...+2 GC is correct.
Go for it Chris change the flank rules and let us know how it goes  ....think it's healthy for things to be questioned and new rules tried. Version 1.7 of the amendments and Impetus 2 around the corner this is what a 'living breathing' set of rules looks like isn't it ? Smile

Good point - try it and see.
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Re: Flank attacks, pursuit moves, and skirmishers

Post by Gaius Cassius on Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:31 pm

My only issue with your past suggestions Chris for making house rules etc. is that they seem to be based on very limited play.

We tend to only make house rules when we see a problem in the rules. What problem do you see with the current flank rules?
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