Latest topics
» Help in making a errata/FAQ
Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:56 pm by wombatdazzler

» find Notes of Schermagliatori
Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:07 am by reneseeder

» Will the Army list be changed by Impetus 2
Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:14 am by dadiepiombo

» Opportunity Charge clarification
Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:11 am by dadiepiombo

» Different base size
Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:07 am by dadiepiombo

» Main unit and Support unit in second combat
Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:02 am by dadiepiombo

» Toughening Up CP
Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:46 pm by Cyrus The Adequate

» An Ancient Campaign using Sabin's Empire as a basis and Basic Impetus (augmented) to fight the battles
Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:53 pm by 1ngram

» Averaging cohesion tests
Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:05 pm by Cyrus The Adequate

Impetus at Derby?

Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:29 am by Cyrus The Adequate

Anyone interested ? 7th & 8th October at a new venue - Bruntingthorpe …

Comments: 10

Wintercon '17 July 15-16th

Sat May 06, 2017 11:44 pm by Tarty

Canberra July 15th-16th

Basic Impetus 2
28mm
Game days are Saturday and Sunday


Comments: 0

BI2 tournament - 25 March 2017

Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:08 am by RogerC

Would anyone be interested in a 28mm Basic Impetus 2 tournament on 25 March …

Comments: 24

28mm Impetus Competition York Sunday 5th February 2017

Mon Oct 03, 2016 8:44 am by Cyrus The Adequate

The traditional start to the Impetus Competition calendar in the UK is York in …

Comments: 80

1° BASIC IMPETUS tournament

Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:19 am by PAPERO

in Castegnato , near Brescia, Sunday, 08.01.2017 Cool

1st tournament BASIC …

Comments: 3

Cancon '17 Canberra, Aus

Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:15 am by Tarty

Cancon '17
Canberra, ACT

28mm  400pts
Friday 27th and Saturday 28th of …

Comments: 0

June 2017
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
   1234
567891011
12131415161718
19202122232425
2627282930  

Calendar Calendar


Horse vs P&M with P&M Taken in Flank/Rear

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Horse vs P&M with P&M Taken in Flank/Rear

Post by Jon Freitag on Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:20 pm

When a horse unit charges and enters into melee against a pike & musket unit and that P&M unit is contacted in the flank or rear, does the horse unit lose its Impetvs Bonus for "Mounted Charging Pike-Armed Foot?"

Jon Freitag
VBU 2
VBU 2

Posts : 4
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2015-02-09

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Horse vs P&M with P&M Taken in Flank/Rear

Post by Zippee on Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:33 pm

Yes IMO
P&M units are abstractions of a complex grouping of sub-units. The exact positioning of musket/arquebus sleeve(s) in relation to the pike block(s) at any given moment is unknown - it was common for the whole lot to form some kind of huddle under the protection of the pikes.

I think you're still facing pikes but you do get other advantages for the morale superiority of attacking the flank/rear
avatar
Zippee
VBU 5
VBU 5

Posts : 539
Reputation : 6
Join date : 2014-05-19
Age : 54
Location : London, UK

View user profile https://www.flickr.com/photos/zippee/sets/

Back to top Go down

Re: Horse vs P&M with P&M Taken in Flank/Rear

Post by Jim Webster on Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:41 pm

Zippee wrote:Yes IMO
P&M units are abstractions of a complex grouping of sub-units. The exact positioning of musket/arquebus sleeve(s) in relation to the pike block(s) at any given moment is unknown - it was common for the whole lot to form some kind of huddle under the protection of the pikes.

I think you're still facing pikes but you do get other advantages for the morale superiority of attacking the flank/rear

Just to say that this is the best way of looking at it. We might put the figures in three blocks, the middle one having pikes, but in reality there could be any number of clumps of pikes with musketeers between them.
And the musketeers might have been prone to hiding behind the pikes, or shooting from behind them, when anybody hostile came close Embarassed
avatar
Jim Webster
VBU 7 h.c.
VBU 7 h.c.

Posts : 470
Reputation : 12
Join date : 2014-05-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Horse vs P&M with P&M Taken in Flank/Rear

Post by Jon Freitag on Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:50 am

Appreciate the responses guys.  I do agree with the argument for abstraction in game terms and buy into the notion that local commanders ought to have the experience and flexibility to put their unit into the proper tactical formation given the situation.  These lower level tactical decisions are not something to which higher commanders intervene unless attached.


Let's play devils' advocate for a moment.  If the defending P&M can abstractly form up (to either flank or rear) to present a pike wall which negates the attacking horse's Impetvs Bonus, what is the rationale for the penalties for automatic defender disorder (-1) and fighting while attacked in flank/rear (-1).  When the P&M forms to present pikes to flank/rear where is the exposed flank/rear for which they are penalized? What is the cause of disorder if that flank/rear has successfully formed to diminish the impact of a charge and is no longer exposed?  

Perhaps forming hedgehog for a P&M unit ought to be considered as an additional REACTION option?

Jon Freitag
VBU 2
VBU 2

Posts : 4
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2015-02-09

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Horse vs P&M with P&M Taken in Flank/Rear

Post by Zippee on Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:32 pm

I think the negative modifiers and disorder represent the morale fear of having enemy in a flank position - remember that getting a flank attack is not easy in Baroque/Impetus, you have to be seriously behind the unit's flank.

Disorder just reflects that fear and the fact that the unit isn't in its best/most optimal facing. Disorder in combat just makes it more likely you will take actual losses and that is important in terms of CT and flank attacks - it needn't be read as literal disorder necessarily.
avatar
Zippee
VBU 5
VBU 5

Posts : 539
Reputation : 6
Join date : 2014-05-19
Age : 54
Location : London, UK

View user profile https://www.flickr.com/photos/zippee/sets/

Back to top Go down

Re: Horse vs P&M with P&M Taken in Flank/Rear

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum