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Vapnartak York Feb 2018- format options?

Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:26 am by Cyrus The Adequate

Hi everyone

I was pondering the options for the York competition and wondered …

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BI2 tournament - 25 March 2017

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Flank attack against multiple units.

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Flank attack against multiple units.

Post by Marcus Aurelius MD on Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:16 pm


Clarification required:-

A situation occurred the other night where a single unit of pike with a separate unit of
contiguous Bow (T) directly behind and in contact with the Pike were both hit in the flank (ie behind the front base edge of the pike) by a single enemy unit of Bow.

We were unsure how to fight this and by mutual agreement agreed that the pike and enemy bow were the main units and that the Bow behind the pike would fight as a
support unit to the pike (Half dice), but that if the pike lost the combat, both units (Pike and Bow) would be destroyed. Is this correct?

We felt that the Bow should contribute something to the combat as they were in contact with the Pike and contacted simultaneously with the pike. What if there was a gap between the pike and the bow?
Would they also contribute support to pike ( allowing pike had more contact frontage) or should there be two separate combats?


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Re: Flank attack against multiple units.

Post by Zippee on Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:08 pm

Without further positional detail I believe you did it correctly:

Define the primary combatants - based on majority front edge contact or potential contact.

Others in contact become supporting units.

All units with a flank contact would count negative dice modifiers and be subject to immediate rout on a loss.

There couldn't be a multiple combat - no unit can count as a primary unit more than once in the same combat (other than as a result of pursuits), so no way the charging T unit can fight twice. (A pursuit isn't going to contact the enemy FP or T because they won't be there due to the flank rules)

Remember: If you contact multiple enemy, one (and only one) of them has to be the primary, others supports. Defining which one that is may on occasion be a judgement call but if all agree then you're good.
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Re: Flank attack against multiple units.

Post by Marcus Aurelius MD on Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:18 pm

Many thanks for your prompt response. Good to know that we deliberated correctly. It is sometimes hard to find the relevant sentences in the rule book and amendments in the heat of battle!

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Re: Flank attack against multiple units.

Post by Cyrus The Adequate on Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:34 pm

Quick q - the enemy bow - did it have Impetus? Most dont
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Re: Flank attack against multiple units.

Post by Marcus Aurelius MD on Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:41 pm

Yes it did: Indian Archers.

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Re: Flank attack against multiple units.

Post by Cyrus The Adequate on Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:03 pm

Thanks.

I cant think of any other way of resolving it assuming the contact is exactly from 90 degrees - ie the archers hit both units simultaneously.

However I suspect in reality the problem is not that much of an issue as it is almost impossible to do in 28mm with archers as units wheeling in Us don't actually wheel to a multiple of degrees that allow a 90 degree turn - the maximum being 76 degrees at 8 U so I suspect that the contact angle should probably have been + or - a few degrees from the perpendicular in which case there would have only been one unit in contact - whichever was hit first.

Of course this is just pure supposition - but I can't think of a circumstance where it is likely. It could occur if the flanking unit were capable of moving 10U as that would allow a max wheel of 90 degrees - but archers cant do that and I'll go out on a limb and say you wouldn't deliberately wheel twice with the second wheel being 14 degrees (ie a U and 2/3rds).

That's in an ideal world and its understandable that with the usual human error and natural disruptions that units will always be a little out of true - that being the case I would have been tempted to dice for one unit as the contacted unit only and fought that melee, then a second if the result created another contact
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Re: Flank attack against multiple units.

Post by Gaius Cassius on Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:18 pm

To the question itself I would have adjudicated it a bit differently.

The main defending unit would be the unit that had most frontage  from the attacking T. The example doesn't specify which unit had the most frontage.

Assuming that the attacking T and the PK were the main units and that the PK lost the melee I would not rout the support unit. Automatic rout is only a condition for a main unit that is flanked. In this case the rear T retreats and it might retreat beyond contact with the attacking T and thus escape a second round of melee.
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