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Flank Attacks

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Flank Attacks

Post by Zippee on Wed Nov 23, 2016 5:54 pm

Just a quick one,

When surviving a flank attack can the unit turn in place to face the attacker front-edge to front-edge or s it locked into a flank/side combat?

Pretty sure it's locked until it pursues when it can pivot as part of the pursuit - bit harsh if it fails to pursue though as it suddenly can't reorientate itself.
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Re: Flank Attacks

Post by Granicus Gaugamela on Thu Nov 24, 2016 3:23 am

Assuming the "flanked" unit really ripped one out and won the melee then the "flanking" unit retreats in accordance with 7.6.2:

"A Unit that loses a melee retreats, without changing its facing, by a distance in U rolled on a d6 if Mounted or half that number (rounded up) if Infantry."

So they go straight back.

The winning unit can then pursue according to 7.6.4 which includes:

" The Pursuit move is performed completely and straight forward or, if the player controlling the pursuing Unit should decide, in the direction that the enemy is fleeing in. To perform a Pursuit move, trace an imaginary line that joins the middle of the front of the two Units involved. The pursuing Unit moves into a position that is perpendicular to this line thanks to a free pivot around the middle of the Units’ front, after which it moves the number of U rolled on a d6."

So the "flanked" unit gets to do a major reorganisation (and bear in mind that it will be well over 90 degrees given the conditions for a flank attack in Impetus) to be perpendicular to the mid point connector line and then pursue.

The only debate I have encountered about this is whether the midpoint connector line is taken before or after the losing unit has retreated, convention seems to be before.

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Re: Flank Attacks

Post by Granicus Gaugamela on Thu Nov 24, 2016 3:34 am

Perhaps another question that may be relevant - what happens in the event of beating off a rear attack?

There may well be insufficient space for the unit to pivot 180 degrees without contacting the losing unit to its rear (eg a rear attack that loses and then rolls a 1 on its retreat distance).

Just for the sheer hell of it I'd say anyone who survives and ultimately beats of an attack such as that gets to reorganise to face the defeated unit. They just overcame the most disadvantageous position possible and have effectively turned the tables on their enemy who thought they had an absolute win on their hands....

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Re: Flank Attacks

Post by Granicus Gaugamela on Thu Nov 24, 2016 3:41 am

Alternatively if you're asking what happens in the event of a "stick" where neither side must retreat (which would cause the "flanked" unit to rout) then they just sit there. They held off the incoming charge and they get to do it again next melee activation, the formerly charging unit mo longer getting any impetus bonus that may otherwise be available as they haven't moved.

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Re: Flank Attacks

Post by Zippee on Thu Nov 24, 2016 7:55 am

HI GG, yes it was about a flank attack that stuck - it looks odd having the units sat like that.

To be honest the same question applies to side attacks and as you say rear attacks.

So thinking (danger!) further on it, units sit in the current configuration until someone retreats or is removed. This is the same regardless of how marginal or odd the contact is.

However once the melee is won, pursuit is an option and this allows a preliminary pivot to line up on the retreating enemy. I'm perfectly happy that this is a mechanic not an actual footprint traced manoeuvre. A unit can pivot 180 to the rear on the spot, it doesn't interpenetrate anything in the process, same with turning to the side or flank.

However is this pivot absolutely part of the pursuit move or is it something that a surviving unit can do regardless of its desire (or ability) to pursue. My foot caught in the flank by horse, probably don't want to pursue but they really, really would like to pivot.

The Rules wrote:The pursuing Unit moves into a position that is perpendicular to this line thanks to a free pivot around the middle of the Unit's front, after which it moves the number of BU determined by the roll on a d6 according to the table above.

This could be read to indicate that the roll is made after the pivot.

So can any unit that wins a flank/side/rear combat pivot or only ones that successfully pursue?
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Re: Flank Attacks

Post by Gaius Cassius on Thu Nov 24, 2016 6:53 pm

Since the pivot is conditional upon the unit pursuing we have always played it that the unit must be able to pursue in order to pivot. A foot unit flanked by CM for instance could not pivot because it cannot pursue should it happen to win the melee.

To your first question I agree with GG that they are stuck in. But at least the flanking unit doesn't get the extra 2 dice for flanking on subsequent rounds of melee.
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Re: Flank Attacks

Post by Zippee on Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:28 pm

This is embarrassing but I could have sworn I posted this on the Baroque forum - this isn't an Impetus question it's a Baroque one.

Only the reference to CM has made be realise, so I apologise for that grievous error.

I'll post again on the right forum !
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Re: Flank Attacks

Post by Granicus Gaugamela on Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:32 am

Gaius Cassius wrote:
To your first question I agree with GG that they are stuck in. But at least the flanking unit doesn't get the extra 2 dice for flanking on subsequent rounds of melee.

A key distinction often missed. The bonus is for charging into the flank, not simply for attacking it.

As another question do you play that on a second or subsequent round of combat a flanked unit is not autorouted?

The wording states "If the Unit fought against an enemy Unit that contacted it on its flank or rear and fails the Cohesion Test then it is Routed.", the argument could be made that the unit was not CONTACTED rather they were already IN CONTACT.

I've only ever played it as being an autorout but could see an argument being made for the other case.

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Re: Flank Attacks

Post by Gaius Cassius on Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:27 am

We play it that the unit is autorouted in subsequent turns where it is flanked. I believe that Lorenzo has stated that this is so.

I remember having a Swiss pike block with an attached leader fighting two CP units of the Knights of St. John (7/4), one frontal and one flank. Each round of melee was a real stress test. With CT of 6 +1 +1 -1 as long as the Swiss didn't roll a 6 I felt good. But one bad CT and the game was over. This melee went on for several turns but thankfully (for me!) on this occasion the Swiss prevailed. The front CP was defeated and support finally came up and put pressure on the flanking unit. But it has gone the other way too! Makes for a lot of good drama!
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Re: Flank Attacks

Post by Tarty on Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:19 am

Gaius Cassius wrote:We play it that the unit is autorouted in subsequent turns where it is flanked. I believe that Lorenzo has stated that this is so.
I'll second that....on the old forum if I recall.
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