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Impetus Competition Derby Worlds 2017

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Wintercon '17 July 15-16th

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BI2 tournament - 25 March 2017

Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:08 am by RogerC

Would anyone be interested in a 28mm Basic Impetus 2 tournament on 25 March …

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1° BASIC IMPETUS tournament

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in Castegnato , near Brescia, Sunday, 08.01.2017 Cool

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BI2 tournament - 25 March 2017

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BI2 tournament - 25 March 2017

Post by RogerC on Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:08 am

Would anyone be interested in a 28mm Basic Impetus 2 tournament on 25 March 2017? I know there has already been a 15mm BI2 tournament in Italy.

If there is enough interest, I will run one in Kingston Seymour village hall, which is 15 miles south of Bristol, and just 10 mins from Junction 20 on the M5. Entry will be free.

If registration is at 9.30am for a 10.00am start, I think we should be able to get 4 games in the day. I'm thinking 75 mins or so per game should be enough, as BI2 armies are relatively small.

As BI2 is new to us all, the tournament will be an open one. There shouldn't be too much difficulty over army lists and there are plenty to choose from.

Let me know if you are interested.

So, current list of participants is:

1. Mark Emms
2  Ross Broadstock
3. Tony Dennis
4. Jez Todd
5. Matt Todd
6. Roger Calderbank
7. Gary C


RogerC


Last edited by RogerC on Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:28 am; edited 4 times in total (Reason for editing : Changed list of participants)

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Re: BI2 tournament - 25 March 2017

Post by grenadiergrandson on Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:14 am

Hi Roger, put me down please I'll get some units dusted off ready to bring over the bridge! Regards, Mark

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Re: BI2 tournament - 25 March 2017

Post by Aurelius on Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:54 pm

Hi Roger, I'll join you,,

Tony

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Re: BI2 tournament - 25 March 2017

Post by RogerC on Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:55 am

Thank you Mark and Tony. We'll see how much interest BI2 has already gained.

RogerC

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Re: BI2 tournament - 25 March 2017

Post by jeztodd on Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:21 am

Roger

Great idea - pretty sure can come especially if I can get a lift with Tony! Will ask my brother and if he is not working think he will come.

Will it be open or any special period. Or other ideas being entertained? Only played one game of BI2 so far but want to play more.

Cheers Jez
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Re: BI2 tournament - 25 March 2017

Post by grenadiergrandson on Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:20 am

Hi Roger,

Can you add Phil Sweeting to the list please? Thanks

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Re: BI2 tournament - 25 March 2017

Post by RogerC on Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:54 pm

Thanks, Jez and Mark. Numbers rising nicely. Jez, if your brother can come too, that would be good.

It is an open tournament. As BI2 is new, I thought people could field their favorite armies, if they wanted, to see how they perform. Maybe in future there will be themed events, but that will depend how we all get on with BI2.


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Re: BI2 tournament - 25 March 2017

Post by jeztodd on Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:10 pm

Hi Roger - looks like Matt can come to the competition so another for the list!

Only played a couple of games so far but our game yesterday Middle Republican Rome v Carthage ended up lasting a full six moves and took a couple of hours - maybe we were both being a bit cagey!

Cheers Jez
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Re: BI2 tournament - 25 March 2017

Post by RogerC on Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:46 am

Thanks Jez. Good to hear that Matt can come. That takes us up to 7, so we hope for more.

Yes, it is certainly possible for BI2 games to go on longer than an hour or so. These can be lots of room on a 6 x 4 table, as the armies are relatively small, and often it isn't too difficult to avoid contact, particularly if the armies set up far apart. There has to be a bit of 'go for it' sometimes.

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Re: BI2 tournament - 25 March 2017

Post by RogerC on Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:53 pm

A month to go. Are there any others out there who want to come along?

RogerC

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Re: BI2 tournament - 25 March 2017

Post by RogerC on Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:26 pm

So here are some ideas for a simple scoring system that I'm thinking of using.

Win - 15 points
Lose - points equal to the VD loss inflicted on the opponent
Tie (mutual destruction) - 12 points each
Draw (unfinished game) - points equal to the VD loss inflicted minus 2

This will keep the admin simple for me and allow everyone to know where they stand. The minus 2 for a draw is to encourage games to be played to a conclusion.

If there are any equal scores at the end of the tournament, then the higher position will go to the player with least VD losses received.

As I said, I plan 4 rounds of about 75 minutes each. With that in mind, I'm thinking we can have byes if we end up with an odd number of players. A bye will score 12 points. I'll have the first bye, unless anyone is late, so everyone else will be playing straight away. In subsequent rounds, the player with the lowest overall score will get the bye, although no-one will have 2 byes. That way, everyone including me will get at least 3 games.

At the moment, it looks like the first round will be England v Wales. Subsequent rounds will be on a Swiss system, but I'll try to avoid regular players being drawn to face each other, if I can.

Does that sound OK?

RogerC

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Re: BI2 tournament - 25 March 2017

Post by dadiepiombo on Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:30 am

I will post in a specific thread the point sytem we use in Italy, but you are free too chose any other system
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Re: BI2 tournament - 25 March 2017

Post by Aurelius on Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:03 pm

Some questions come to mind as the day approaches; Very Happy

As the BI army lists are well defined, and the armies small and reasonably portable, I was wondering if we might play different options in each game, or would that be too complicated?

Do we need to announce our list before the comp?

Will we be using "Aces"?

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Re: BI2 tournament - 25 March 2017

Post by RogerC on Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:22 am

I thought about allowing army changes, but it then gets more complicated, as you say. I'll see what others think, but for now I'm minded to say that we each stick to one army throughout the tournament.

There doesn't seem to be any reason why the lists need to be announced before the day. There isn't any points checking to be done. So you can say in advance if you want, or just tell me on the day which list (and which variants of that list if any) you are going to use.

Yes, we'll be using aces, as per the rules. You can have a different ace from game to game.

I'm happy to answer any other questions anyone has, and will post final admin details nearer the date.

RogerC

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Re: BI2 tournament - 25 March 2017

Post by RogerC on Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:47 pm

After a few more practice games, I'm beginning to think that 75 minutes per game may be a bit tight, and would like to go to 90 minutes. I still want to fit in four rounds, so a slightly earlier start may be needed. As there are only a few of us, registration shouldn't take too long, particularly if MrsC does the first round draw in advance.

So can everyone cope with a start where the hall opens at 9.00, registration is at 9.15 and the first game starts at 9.30? If that is a problem for anyone, please say. I know it is OK for Ross and Mark.

With 15 mins between rounds and 45 mins for lunch, we should still finish by 5.15 or so.

Assuming no-one has a problem with the retiming, I'll put up final details in a few days.

RogerC

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Re: BI2 tournament - 25 March 2017

Post by Charioteer on Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:35 am

Hi roger any chance of adding me to the list

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Re: BI2 tournament - 25 March 2017

Post by RogerC on Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:48 pm

Hi Gary, welcome to the forum. There is plenty of room, so I'm happy to add you to the list.

I'll be posting final details next week. See you on the 25th.

RogerC

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Re: BI2 tournament - 25 March 2017

Post by RogerC on Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:45 am

So, I said I'd post final details and here they are. Note that Phil Sweeting has had to drop out so we're back to 7 listed in the initial post.

THE KINGSTON SEYMOUR CHALLENGE - 25 MARCH 2017

Venue: The Village Hall, Ham Lane, Kingston Seymour BS21 6XE.
The village isn't very big, and the village hall is opposite the church. There is plenty of parking. We are about 10 mins from the M5 Junction 20.

Time: Hall opens 9.00am. Registration 9.15. First game 9.30. Four rounds of 90 mins each. 45 mins for lunch between rounds 2 and 3.

Scoring: as in my earlier post on this thread. 15 points for a win, 12 points for a tie (mutual destruction) or a bye. Loser gets points equal to VD casualties of winner. Minus 2 to scores of unfinished games. VD losses taken into account only if scores are equal at the end. First round will be pre-drawn, subsequent rounds on a Swiss system, but trying to avoid 'friendly' clashes where possible.

Free entry. Lunch of the sandwiches and pork pies variety will be provided, but please bring your own if you have any special dietary requirements. Coffee, tea and soft drinks will also be available.

Terrain: I have terrain templates for the 3 tables we'll need, and a few roads, rivers and hills, but it would also be useful if people brought their own, particularly if you want anything unusual.

Armies: any one army from the rule book. Please let me know any options being used when registering.

If anyone has any questions, please let me know. See you on the 25th.

RogerC

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Re: BI2 tournament - 25 March 2017

Post by grenadiergrandson on Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:40 pm

Thanks for getting this sorted Roger, looking forward to playing against some old opponents again! I wonder if we'll still manage to avoid each other once more Jez Very Happy

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Re: BI2 tournament - 25 March 2017

Post by RogerC on Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:19 pm

So thank you all for coming. A particular thanks to my opponents Tony, Jez and Mark for three excellent games. I hope everyone enjoyed themselves as much as I did.

So armies and final results were:

1st. Ross Broadstock (Golden Horde). 49 points
2nd. Roger Calderbank (Chinese Northern & Southern Dynasties). 43 points
3rd. Tony Dennis (Burgundian Ordonnance). 37 points
4th. Matt Todd (Middle Samurai). 37 points (but more VD loss overall than Tony)
5th. Gary Chapman (Hittite Empire). 34 points
6th. Mark Emms (Akkadian Empire). 33 points
7th. Matt Todd (Ancient Britons). 27 points

In the 12 games, there were only 2 draws. One was by time running out and the other mutually agreed. Most games finished within an hour or so. We had no problem fitting 4 rounds in the time I had allowed; indeed we managed to finish early. Everyone had at least one win.

As I was acting as referee, I was pleased that there were no significant disagreements over rule interpretation. Thank you everyone for playing in such a gentlemanly manner. Most of us discovered at least one rule that we hadn't appreciated before (I was grateful to be shown the effect of side/rear shooting in 6.3.1). I think the scoring system I used worked OK. It certainly made it easy for me.

Best wishes to all. I trust you got home safely.

RogerC

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Re: BI2 tournament - 25 March 2017

Post by grenadiergrandson on Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:55 pm

Thanks for putting on such a well organised day Roger, really nice venue and excellent catering! It was good to meet up with some old (and new) opponents again, great fun. Sorry about the mad donkeys Jez, hopefully you can try and get your own back on them some time.

Interesting to talk rules with others as well, lots learnt today I really must read the book some time   Smile

Hopefully it'll become a regular fixture, BI2 gave a good day's gaming.

Cheers

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Re: BI2 tournament - 25 March 2017

Post by Aurelius on Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:51 am

I'd like to add my thanks to Roger for organising this event, with special appreciation for the catering! A really good day out.

I thought the rules worked well, with a subtle change of balance between some troop types compared with full Impetus. For example "Defensive Fire" gives T a sporting chance. CL / S are slightly less effective as they do not get to evade shooting, but are still formidable en-mass (as I discovered against the Golden Horde!).

Will definitely play more BI2.

Tony

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Re: BI2 tournament - 25 March 2017

Post by jeztodd on Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:27 pm

Roger - thanks for organizing a great day. The boozy birthday cake was a total plus ..........

Yes I also really enjoyed using the Basic Impetus 2 rules. One point we could follow up on is to summarize the few rules we wanted to double check or had forgotten. I can list a few .......

Pursuit -
FL infantry can roll for pursuit even against cavalry. Worth re-checking on this. Also if attached in flank or rear and win combat and want to pursue. We played the pivot to face in the direction and then roll to see if actually move any distance.

Support Unit Pursuing - only if impetuous or heavy cav I think.

Interpenetration - know we had a discussion here ...... can anyone else summarize?

Thanks again Roger

Cheers Jez
(PS me playing the Middle Samurai)
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Re: BI2 tournament - 25 March 2017

Post by jeztodd on Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:32 pm

Hi All

Just another reflection on the games. Always interesting to see how the initial deployment and approach does not always lead to the win.

In my first game against Sumerian I thought at move 3 would comfortably win ... but had not counted on the power of a "mad donkeys heavy chariot charge". This time the dice went for Mark.

In my third game against Chinese I was outplayed and my positioning of some units wrong. Basically won as the enemy cavalry could not roll any six's!

Guess swings and roundabouts.

Cheers Jez
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Re: BI2 tournament - 25 March 2017

Post by RogerC on Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:25 pm

Thank you Mark, Tony and Jez for the kind words. Glad you enjoyed the day. I am told the cake was 'watered' with white port, rum and brandy!

Yes Jez, the Divine Wind was blowing for your samurai against the Chinese. But then I got revenge for you on the Akkadians; the Chinese had sweet and sour donkey for dinner that evening.

On pursuits, 7.6.2 says 'Non-impetuous Heavy Imfantry (FP) is not allowed to pursuit retreating Mounted' and a bit earlier, after talking about heavy cavalry and warbands,  it says other units with an I greater than 0 have the option to pursue. So I'm pretty happy FL can roll to pursue against cavalry. Equally, I think 7.6.3 is clear that the only support units which pursue are impetuous units and heavy cavalry.

The 'free pivot' is a bit less certain. I took the last but one sentence of 7.6.2 to mean that you do the pivot before rolling to see how far the pursuit goes ('after which'). 0 is a number so you could pivot and then not move any further. I know this came up in discussions about Baroque, but that was where the rules say foot cannot pursue mounted. Here, I'm assuming the pursuit is possible for a unit attacked in the flank/rear which wins the combat, and the question is whether there is a pivot when the die roll gives 0H as the pursuit distance.

The interpenetration question arises from the first bullet point in 5.7.1. It is a bit complicated so I'll try to explain in a separate thread on the BI rules part of the forum. I was pleased there weren't that many questions, when the rules were relatively new for us all.

Best wishes

RogerC

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