Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:29 am by Cyrus The Adequate
Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:08 am by RogerC
Mon Oct 03, 2016 8:44 am by Cyrus The Adequate
Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:19 am by PAPERO
Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:15 am by Tarty
Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:16 pm by dadiepiombo
If there is enough interest, I will run one in Kingston Seymour village hall, which is 15 miles south of Bristol, and just 10 mins from Junction 20 on the M5. Entry will be free.
If registration is at 9.30am for a 10.00am start, I think we should be able to get 4 games in the day. I'm thinking 75 mins or so per game should be enough, as BI2 armies are relatively small.
As BI2 is new to us all, the tournament will be an open one. There shouldn't be too much difficulty over army lists and there are plenty to choose from.
Let me know if you are interested.
So, current list of participants is:
1. Mark Emms
2 Ross Broadstock
3. Tony Dennis
4. Jez Todd
5. Matt Todd
6. Roger Calderbank
7. Gary C
Last edited by RogerC on Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:28 am; edited 4 times in total (Reason for editing : Changed list of participants)
Great idea - pretty sure can come especially if I can get a lift with Tony! Will ask my brother and if he is not working think he will come.
Will it be open or any special period. Or other ideas being entertained? Only played one game of BI2 so far but want to play more.
It is an open tournament. As BI2 is new, I thought people could field their favorite armies, if they wanted, to see how they perform. Maybe in future there will be themed events, but that will depend how we all get on with BI2.
Only played a couple of games so far but our game yesterday Middle Republican Rome v Carthage ended up lasting a full six moves and took a couple of hours - maybe we were both being a bit cagey!
Yes, it is certainly possible for BI2 games to go on longer than an hour or so. These can be lots of room on a 6 x 4 table, as the armies are relatively small, and often it isn't too difficult to avoid contact, particularly if the armies set up far apart. There has to be a bit of 'go for it' sometimes.
Win - 15 points
Lose - points equal to the VD loss inflicted on the opponent
Tie (mutual destruction) - 12 points each
Draw (unfinished game) - points equal to the VD loss inflicted minus 2
This will keep the admin simple for me and allow everyone to know where they stand. The minus 2 for a draw is to encourage games to be played to a conclusion.
If there are any equal scores at the end of the tournament, then the higher position will go to the player with least VD losses received.
As I said, I plan 4 rounds of about 75 minutes each. With that in mind, I'm thinking we can have byes if we end up with an odd number of players. A bye will score 12 points. I'll have the first bye, unless anyone is late, so everyone else will be playing straight away. In subsequent rounds, the player with the lowest overall score will get the bye, although no-one will have 2 byes. That way, everyone including me will get at least 3 games.
At the moment, it looks like the first round will be England v Wales. Subsequent rounds will be on a Swiss system, but I'll try to avoid regular players being drawn to face each other, if I can.
Does that sound OK?
As the BI army lists are well defined, and the armies small and reasonably portable, I was wondering if we might play different options in each game, or would that be too complicated?
Do we need to announce our list before the comp?
Will we be using "Aces"?
There doesn't seem to be any reason why the lists need to be announced before the day. There isn't any points checking to be done. So you can say in advance if you want, or just tell me on the day which list (and which variants of that list if any) you are going to use.
Yes, we'll be using aces, as per the rules. You can have a different ace from game to game.
I'm happy to answer any other questions anyone has, and will post final admin details nearer the date.
So can everyone cope with a start where the hall opens at 9.00, registration is at 9.15 and the first game starts at 9.30? If that is a problem for anyone, please say. I know it is OK for Ross and Mark.
With 15 mins between rounds and 45 mins for lunch, we should still finish by 5.15 or so.
Assuming no-one has a problem with the retiming, I'll put up final details in a few days.
THE KINGSTON SEYMOUR CHALLENGE - 25 MARCH 2017
Venue: The Village Hall, Ham Lane, Kingston Seymour BS21 6XE.
The village isn't very big, and the village hall is opposite the church. There is plenty of parking. We are about 10 mins from the M5 Junction 20.
Time: Hall opens 9.00am. Registration 9.15. First game 9.30. Four rounds of 90 mins each. 45 mins for lunch between rounds 2 and 3.
Scoring: as in my earlier post on this thread. 15 points for a win, 12 points for a tie (mutual destruction) or a bye. Loser gets points equal to VD casualties of winner. Minus 2 to scores of unfinished games. VD losses taken into account only if scores are equal at the end. First round will be pre-drawn, subsequent rounds on a Swiss system, but trying to avoid 'friendly' clashes where possible.
Free entry. Lunch of the sandwiches and pork pies variety will be provided, but please bring your own if you have any special dietary requirements. Coffee, tea and soft drinks will also be available.
Terrain: I have terrain templates for the 3 tables we'll need, and a few roads, rivers and hills, but it would also be useful if people brought their own, particularly if you want anything unusual.
Armies: any one army from the rule book. Please let me know any options being used when registering.
If anyone has any questions, please let me know. See you on the 25th.
So armies and final results were:
1st. Ross Broadstock (Golden Horde). 49 points
2nd. Roger Calderbank (Chinese Northern & Southern Dynasties). 43 points
3rd. Tony Dennis (Burgundian Ordonnance). 37 points
4th. Matt Todd (Middle Samurai). 37 points (but more VD loss overall than Tony)
5th. Gary Chapman (Hittite Empire). 34 points
6th. Mark Emms (Akkadian Empire). 33 points
7th. Matt Todd (Ancient Britons). 27 points
In the 12 games, there were only 2 draws. One was by time running out and the other mutually agreed. Most games finished within an hour or so. We had no problem fitting 4 rounds in the time I had allowed; indeed we managed to finish early. Everyone had at least one win.
As I was acting as referee, I was pleased that there were no significant disagreements over rule interpretation. Thank you everyone for playing in such a gentlemanly manner. Most of us discovered at least one rule that we hadn't appreciated before (I was grateful to be shown the effect of side/rear shooting in 6.3.1). I think the scoring system I used worked OK. It certainly made it easy for me.
Best wishes to all. I trust you got home safely.
Interesting to talk rules with others as well, lots learnt today I really must read the book some time
Hopefully it'll become a regular fixture, BI2 gave a good day's gaming.
I thought the rules worked well, with a subtle change of balance between some troop types compared with full Impetus. For example "Defensive Fire" gives T a sporting chance. CL / S are slightly less effective as they do not get to evade shooting, but are still formidable en-mass (as I discovered against the Golden Horde!).
Will definitely play more BI2.
Yes I also really enjoyed using the Basic Impetus 2 rules. One point we could follow up on is to summarize the few rules we wanted to double check or had forgotten. I can list a few .......
FL infantry can roll for pursuit even against cavalry. Worth re-checking on this. Also if attached in flank or rear and win combat and want to pursue. We played the pivot to face in the direction and then roll to see if actually move any distance.
Support Unit Pursuing - only if impetuous or heavy cav I think.
Interpenetration - know we had a discussion here ...... can anyone else summarize?
Thanks again Roger
(PS me playing the Middle Samurai)
Just another reflection on the games. Always interesting to see how the initial deployment and approach does not always lead to the win.
In my first game against Sumerian I thought at move 3 would comfortably win ... but had not counted on the power of a "mad donkeys heavy chariot charge". This time the dice went for Mark.
In my third game against Chinese I was outplayed and my positioning of some units wrong. Basically won as the enemy cavalry could not roll any six's!
Guess swings and roundabouts.
Yes Jez, the Divine Wind was blowing for your samurai against the Chinese. But then I got revenge for you on the Akkadians; the Chinese had sweet and sour donkey for dinner that evening.
On pursuits, 7.6.2 says 'Non-impetuous Heavy Imfantry (FP) is not allowed to pursuit retreating Mounted' and a bit earlier, after talking about heavy cavalry and warbands, it says other units with an I greater than 0 have the option to pursue. So I'm pretty happy FL can roll to pursue against cavalry. Equally, I think 7.6.3 is clear that the only support units which pursue are impetuous units and heavy cavalry.
The 'free pivot' is a bit less certain. I took the last but one sentence of 7.6.2 to mean that you do the pivot before rolling to see how far the pursuit goes ('after which'). 0 is a number so you could pivot and then not move any further. I know this came up in discussions about Baroque, but that was where the rules say foot cannot pursue mounted. Here, I'm assuming the pursuit is possible for a unit attacked in the flank/rear which wins the combat, and the question is whether there is a pivot when the die roll gives 0H as the pursuit distance.
The interpenetration question arises from the first bullet point in 5.7.1. It is a bit complicated so I'll try to explain in a separate thread on the BI rules part of the forum. I was pleased there weren't that many questions, when the rules were relatively new for us all.